Cockburn 1977

[LGTrotter]

I noticed this on wine searcher; http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2015/07/ ... y-released saying that Cockburn 77 is finally going to be released.

I remember several people talking positively about the quality of this wine. I for one was quite excited by this. Does anyone have insider knowledge about when and where this will be released? Is it going to be worth seeking out?

[jdaw1]

Tasted on 08 Oct 2008, it was wonderful. But at the BFT on 06 May 2015, much less good. YMMV.

[PhilW]

Disagreeing with JDAW; I tasted this in 2013 when I marked it "good/very good", and then in 2015 (at the BFT) where I marked it "very good". Whether it is worth buying will depend on many personal factors as always, and in particular the price compared to other '70s & '77s; I suspect it might be priced higher than typical based on combination of ex-cellars provenance and the small number of cases being released, which I believe is expected to be in the autumn this year.

[jdaw1]

Disagreeing with JDAW …in 2015 (at the BFT) where I marked it "very good".

It is likely that more than one bottle was used at the BFT.

[LGTrotter]

Whether it is worth buying will depend on many personal factors as always, and in particular the price compared to other '70s & '77s; I suspect it might be priced higher than typical based on combination of ex-cellars provenance and the small number of cases being released, which I believe is expected to be in the autumn this year.

Having looked at the tenor of the blurb it seems as though you are right Phil. I think it will not try to be comparable with what is available in the market, in terms of price. I wonder whether it might be better to look for a decent 77 which has been stored in the UK rather than lash out between £75 and £130 a bottle (price suggested on the 'Drinks Business' site). But I have always been keen to have a few, which I suppose is what they are hoping. Not sure how much traction this wine will gain if it is overpriced, there seem to be quite a lot of the limited release ports left in the market. But I suppose if they are only bringing 300 bottles into the UK market it doesn't matter much what happens to it.

[LGTrotter]

I thought a picture might be worth a thousand words.

image.jpg (126.8 KiB) Viewed 13709 times

Just says vintage port, nothing about crusted on the label. The bottle should have been facing the other way, to give the illusion it was gazing keenly into the middle distance. But I must say it looks most attractive.

[idj123]

Nice pic and I believe a different label to the one at the BFT-although I could be wrong. Anyhow, I agree with Phil I thought that the bottle I tasted at BFT showed a fresh wine with still some way to go to full maturity but whether I would purchase at the pricing indicated is another matter.

[Andy Velebil]

Where and when was that pic taken?

And yes, a very nice looking label.

[LGTrotter]

Where and when was that pic taken?

Don't know, it was on the 'Drinks Business' page announcing the release.

[DRT]

A suggestion: Team TPF own a small stock of Ck1977 gifted to the collective by the former owners of the brand.

Now that this wine is commercially available we could crack open a bottle at a tasting to allow potential buyers to who have not tasted it to try before they buy.

Thoughts?

[PhilW]

Where and when was that pic taken?

Image appears to have been taken on the 21st June at 14:19 (probably UTC), using an iPhone 5s. So, it's a very recent pic, which I would therefore guess is either the latest draft/marketing dummy label, or the final product. Nice label, lovely view (which I imagine someone will be able to recognise?).

[Andy Velebil]

A suggestion: Team TPF own a small stock of Ck1977 gifted to the collective by the former owners of the brand.

Now that this wine is commercially available we could crack open a bottle at a tasting to allow potential buyers to who have not tasted it to try before they buy.

Thoughts?

If the team would at least save one for the next time I am over I would be very grateful. I would bring something appropriate to go with it.

[Andy Velebil]

Where and when was that pic taken?

Image appears to have been taken on the 21st June at 14:19 (probably UTC), using an iPhone 5s. So, it's a very recent pic, which I would therefore guess is either the latest draft/marketing dummy label, or the final product. Nice label, lovely view (which I imagine someone will be able to recognise?).

Thanks.

[DRT]

A suggestion: Team TPF own a small stock of Ck1977 gifted to the collective by the former owners of the brand.

Now that this wine is commercially available we could crack open a bottle at a tasting to allow potential buyers to who have not tasted it to try before they buy.

Thoughts?

If the team would at least save one for the next time I am over I would be very grateful. I would bring something appropriate to go with it.

I think that could be arranged

[Andy Velebil]

A suggestion: Team TPF own a small stock of Ck1977 gifted to the collective by the former owners of the brand.

Now that this wine is commercially available we could crack open a bottle at a tasting to allow potential buyers to who have not tasted it to try before they buy.

Thoughts?

If the team would at least save one for the next time I am over I would be very grateful. I would bring something appropriate to go with it.

I think that could be arranged

Thanks

[PhilW]

Where and when was that pic taken?

Image appears to have been taken on the 21st June at 14:19 (probably UTC), using an iPhone 5s. So, it's a very recent pic, which I would therefore guess is either the latest draft/marketing dummy label, or the final product. Nice label, lovely view (which I imagine someone will be able to recognise?).

Location seems to be Quinta dos Canais, perhaps unsurprisingly.

[djewesbury]

A suggestion: Team TPF own a small stock of Ck1977 gifted to the collective by the former owners of the brand.

Now that this wine is commercially available we could crack open a bottle at a tasting to allow potential buyers to who have not tasted it to try before they buy.

Thoughts?

If the team would at least save one for the next time I am over I would be very grateful. I would bring something appropriate to go with it.

I add my name to this plea.

[LGTrotter]

I assume this will be imported through Fells in the UK. I wonder where the bottles will end up? The usual suspects in terms of merchants I suppose. If anyone gets news I should be glad to know.

[JB vintage]

Does anyone have an update to when and where the Cockburn 1977 will be released?

[LGTrotter]

"The fall", was the nearest time estimate for the time of release. It might be worth pestering local stockists of Symington wines. I don't know who the importers are in Sweden. In the UK it is Fells. I shall email Berrys in September because I can't think of a better plan.

[mosesbotbol]

I plan to put in an order for at least 6 once it comes around.

[jdaw1]

Who has the best relationship with Fells? Perhaps an advance order could be assembled and conveyed to the Symingtons and their UK importers.

None for me.

[JB vintage]

I'll be interested in buying some Ck77. However, there will be no release in Sweden so I will have to ship from the UK. Does anyone have any new information on the subject?

[LGTrotter]

Does anyone have an update to when and where the Cockburn 1977 will be released?

Furthermore;

I'll be interested in buying some Ck77. However, there will be no release in Sweden so I will have to ship from the UK. Does anyone have any new information on the subject?

Don't panic! Of course if I hear anything I will report it here, however I am slow and generally the last person to know. Others may have the ear of the right person and be able to say sooner. I notice that wine searcher has an email alert button which would presumably tell you when this wine appears on the market. I have never tried it and do not know if you have to be a subscriber in order to use it. But it was a thought.

[JB vintage]

Great advice! Thank you.

[LGTrotter]

Great advice! Thank you.

No problem. If you hear anything do post it here, I would be most grateful.

[forest26]

The UK allocations of Cockburn 77 will finally be released to the trade 9th November along with the Malvedos 65.
I have asked fells for a press release.

[forest26]

The UK allocations of Cockburn 77 will finally be released to the trade 9th November along with the Malvedos 65.
I have asked fells for a press release.

A little more info - Quantities are tiny - The RSP for Ck77 is £75 (I assume that this is VAT inclusive).

[Axel P]

I have these two images from Cockburn 77.

The "official" one is from the factory house:

tpf C77 O.jpg (51.71 KiB) Viewed 12172 times

and the one, where Miguel gave us a case after the tasting in 08:

tpf C77 N.jpg (41.53 KiB) Viewed 12172 times

I liked these labels better.

Axel

[JB vintage]

As far as I understand the Cockburn 77 has been released but I cannot find it for sale anywhere. Does anyone know where it is sold?

[DRT]

As far as I understand the Cockburn 77 has been released but I cannot find it for sale anywhere. Does anyone know where it is sold?

Very small allocations are likely to go through the wine merchants that normally sell SFE's new release VPs and are highly likely to be snapped up by the most regular customers of those wine merchants.

I wouldn't expect many of these to make it to a shelf or a generally available list.

[LGTrotter]

I heard it would be so plentiful that they were going to run the fountains on it in Trafalgar Square.

The original labels are much nicer.

[forest26]

Press release - for the CK77

1977 Vintage Port Bicentenary Limited Edition

Following the acquisition of Cockburn’s in 2006, the Symington family were surprised to find 116 cases of 1977 Vintage Port in a corner of the company’s cellars. Cockburn’s famously did not ‘declare’ a 1977 Vintage, although virtually every other Port house did so.

Cockburn’s had been under multinational ownership since 1962 and the head office strangely turned down the request of the company’s winemakers in Portugal to ‘declare’ the 1977 Vintage, apparently a vintage offer did not fit into the multinational’s global corporate plan, despite excellent weather conditions and the obvious quality of the wine. Fighting to keep the independent spirit of Cockburn’s alive, the winemakers in Portugal quietly ignored the head-office’s command and discretely bottled two barrels of this exceptional Vintage Port. The bottles were then hidden in a quiet corner of the vast Cockburn’s cellars in Vila Nova de Gaia, where they have remained undisturbed for 36 years.

When the Symingtons were preparing for the Cockburn’s bicentenary in 2015 it became clear that there could be no better way of celebrating this historic anniversary than by releasing this rare Vintage Port. Finally the covert plans of the Cockburn’s winemakers can see the light of day; each bottle of Cockburn’s 1977 Vintage Port reflects the independent and sometimes idiosyncratic spirit of this great Port house that never died under the long years of multinational ownership

The remaining 1,400 bottles of Cockburn’s 1977 Vintage Port will be available through fine wine merchants.
Vila Nova de Gaia, XX 2015

About Symington Family Estates

The Symingtons have been Port producers for five generations since 1882 but their involvement in Port dates back fourteen generations to 1652 through their great-grandmother Beatrice Leitão de Carvalhosa Atkinson. The family company is the leading quality Port producer with companies such as Graham’s, Cockburn’s, Dow’s and Warre’s as well as being the leading vineyard owner in the Douro Valley with 1 006 hectares (2 486 acres) of vines at 27 Quintas. Many of the region’s finest Quintas belong to the family. For more information on Symington Family Estates, visit http://www.symington.com and discover more on blog.grahams-port.com and http://www.facebook.com/grahams.port.wine

[forest26]

cockburns vintage 1977 THUMBNAIL.jpg (225.59 KiB) Viewed 12116 times

[griff]

Nice! I would be keen on acquiring being a birth year and all that but looks like it may not be available to the likes of me.

[SCP]

Farr Vintners have 1 case on sale on their website - not for me, but I'm sure a fellow TPF member will jump in!

[LGTrotter]

Farr Vintners have 1 case on sale on their website - not for me, but I'm sure a fellow TPF member will jump in!

Gone before my credit card was warmed up, did anyone see what price was quoted?

[SCP]

670 Gbp for a case

[g-man]

I got qouted 1500$ for a 12pack

[LGTrotter]

I have managed to get eight of these from here and there. I am not doing this from a sense of smugness (alright, not just smugness), but those who have expressed an interest should be pestering their merchants, trawling the web, or weeping at their lack of foresight.

[g-man]

i understand the rarity

but is there really a point to stock up on this port, from the notes i've read on here, that is at best possibly mediocre?

It'd be like buying a 84' Domaine d Romanee Conti just to say you have it but not really enjoy drinking it.

[Glenn E.]

but is there really a point to stock up on this port, from the notes i've read on here, that is at best possibly mediocre?

Mediocre?

Your point system must be very different than mine. I have it at excellent, which is a good 10-15 points higher than mediocre.

[LGTrotter]

i understand the rarity

but is there really a point to stock up on this port, from the notes i've read on here, that is at best possibly mediocre?

It'd be like buying a 84' Domaine d Romanee Conti just to say you have it but not really enjoy drinking it.

Well, yes, and no.

I agree that it is a bit overpriced, you could buy the 1970 Cockburn for the same price, but to compare it with the 84 Romanee Conti is a little excitable. I looked it up and FRW have it for £7500 a bottle, a sum which would enable you to buy about a quarter of the allocation of the Cockburn sent to the UK (I think).

But I happen to like Cockburn wines, I think they are underrated for no readily apparent reason. Now I come to think of it the reason is clear; paler, browner wines always lose out to darker fruitier ones. But I am happy to pay a bit of a premium for something from a reliable source. You mention the rarity, which is certainly a factor. But the killer punch for me is not rarity, it is the story. It is the port that never was.

[g-man]

but is there really a point to stock up on this port, from the notes i've read on here, that is at best possibly mediocre?

Mediocre?

Your point system must be very different than mine. I have it at excellent, which is a good 10-15 points higher than mediocre.

i'm only reading the notes, not the points.

descriptions as LGTrotter mentions, doesnt sound that appealing for the value.


I used the drc reference as a drastic point to say that the wine shoudln't be even remotely worth that much, and certainly wouldn't drink like it was worth that much, but that it fetches the prices due to the rarity.

In terms of rare ports, I dont recall many ports that would fit into the category of a cockburn 77, where it wasn't officially declared, and the house decided to reissue a non declaration so it's a bit of special category on its own.

But I buy my port to drink, I paid 62$ for my cockburn 70. I have trouble pulling the trigger on a 130$ cockburn 77'. Is the juice better or am i just looking at the c77 as a collectors item.

[Alex Bridgeman]

But I buy my port to drink, I paid 62$ for my cockburn 70. I have trouble pulling the trigger on a 130$ cockburn 77'. Is the juice better or am i just looking at the c77 as a collectors item.

For me it's a bit of both. It's certainly not the greatest port ever, but it is a decent drop of juice - probably on a par with the Cockburn 1970.

I'm happy to buy one, maybe two, bottles at roughly twice the cost of the Cockburn 1970 mostly because I love the back story and when I sit down to sip my way through a bottle I will be thinking of Jim Read (I think he was the one in charge at the time) who just thought "To hell with those guys in head office, what do they know about making port? I'm going to make a 1977 anyway." Call my willingness to spend the extra money belated support for the rebel cause.

But I do agree with Jeff. If you look at this purely from a QPR point of view you wouldn't buy this port. The backstory and romance associated with the wine comes at quite a price.

[LGTrotter]

G-man; all you say is true, I submit. And that is a very good price on the Cockburn 70.

Perhaps you should look at the 77 as an overpriced punt, just to try. You could wait a bit, I doubt that the price will fall given how little there is, but you never know. I also doubt it will go up much either.

[DRT]

If you look at this purely from a QPR point of view you wouldn't buy this port.

That is true of the majority of mature vintage port on the secondary market, as evidenced by the huge amount of average or over-the-hill juice we find when we do very large horizontal tastings. As people who buy lots of different ports for a variety of reasons I don't think QPR is the most appropriate measure for purchases like this otherwise we would all have cellars full of Fonseca 1985 and almost nothing else.

I think this Port is very good. I have tasted it four times and never been disappointed. The price is equivalent to Ck70 in the UK and is about one third or less than the price of most of the other special releases of ex-cellers VP from the Symingtons in the past few years.

It feels like good value to me and I am glad I managed to secure some and help others do the same.

[LGTrotter]

I don't think QPR is the most appropriate measure for purchases like this otherwise we would all have cellars full of Fonseca 1985 and almost nothing else.

A telling point.

The price is equivalent to Ck70 in the UK and is about one third or less than the price of most of the other special releases of ex-cellers VP from the Symingtons in the past few years.

This also is true, I have been moved to laughter rather than reaching for my wallet by most of the mature treasures which have been marketed recently. Despite my acknowledgement of g-man's arguments I am glad I have some and would have certainly bought a dozen if they had been offered at the price in the UK.

[g-man]

I don't think QPR is the most appropriate measure for purchases like this otherwise we would all have cellars full of Fonseca 1985 and almost nothing else.

A telling point.

4 cases in the cellar and counting

[Alex Bridgeman]

There was some speculation in the UK that the Cockburn 1977 vintage port had been rebottled prior to despatch. Having drunk the 1977 before the recently release and having seen one of the new release bottles last week, I can confirm that the juice is in the original bottle. The bottles have clearly been cleaned, recapsuled, selloed and relabelled, and I suspect recorked, but the bottles are the original late 1970s bottles.