Purchased Taylors 1970 vintage port

[noodle]

Hi there,

I have recently purchased a bottle of1970 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port as a present. It has arrived today and to my untrained eye, the bottle just doenst look like a real bottle of vintage port and certainly doenst look like the bottle advertised.
Here are two pictures of the purchased bottle and lable.

bottle

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bottle lable

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Here is the picture of the bottle advertised.

bottle advertised

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Could any of you offer advise as to wherether you think the bottle is real or not as I am intending on giving it to somone who is very in to his wines.

Thanks in advance.

N

[DRT]

This is interesting.

The bottle (ignoring the label) gives no cause for concern. It looks like an English bottled 1970 vintage port. The tight lead seal and the white paint splash look entirely authentic.

The label is less convincing. The crest in the centre of the label is not one I recognise and certainly is not what Taylor use on their labels. But it could relate to the bottler rather than the shipper.

The advertised bottle looks entirely authentic. Even the wax is the right colour.

If I were you I would question the retailer and tell them you are doubtful about what has arrived versus what was pictured in the advert and see what they say.

Don't hesitate to name the retailer here. We might know them and be able to advise on whether or not they are credible.

[LGTrotter]

I agree with all DRT has said.

It is not uncommon for older port bottles to be given facsimile labels, which this may be.

Fake port is almost unheard of.

You seem competent with the camera, any chance of a picture of the top of the capsule?

[noodle]

Thank you for your replys, please see the top of the capsule.

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It was purchased from http://www.vintagewinegifts .co.uk

I did call them today to ask them about it and they assured me that the bottle contains 1970 vintage port and suggested that the lable may well be a faceimile but I just feel as though the bottle supplied is not an authentic representation of either what I would expect to recieve or what was advertised. Perhaps this is due to my lack of experience in wines, hence why I have turned to this forum.

I must add that after speaking to the company about my concerns, the chap on the phone went to check in the cellar and said that he had 2 different batches of this particular vintage and that he had one bottle with the original lables but no seal (IIRC). He said that he would send me a picture of said bottle and a few alternatives from the same price bracket and that if I wished to exchange it he would hapily do so, so I cant fault them on their customer service so far.

Thanks

[LGTrotter]

Thank-you for the prompt photo.

That looks fine to me.

If your friend is into wine he will be very well pleased at a terrific gift. If he is a collector rather than a drinker then the appearance of the label may bother him. It really shouldn't. Port is made to be drunk and I have had terrible port from pristine bottles and vice versa.

With the other bottles you mention as alternatives I would say that it is better to have a complete capsule like yours than the one with the broken capsule. I think it is more important than the label.

Just my opinion, others may wish to add or disagree.

Thanks for the opportunity to go on about port for a bit. Try some, it's rather good.

[LGTrotter]

On reflection this is top dollar for a bottle that looks nothing like the picture advertised, I think I would be annoyed about this too.

[PhilW]

The bottle you have received certainly seems unusual for T70, but not clearly an imposter. In case you are not aware, older vintages used to be shipped in casks (or "pipes") to the UK, where different shippers would bottle them independently, leading to variations in bottle shape, seals, wax and labels; in some cases, the labels would not be ever be applied. Therefore generally, it can sometimes be understandable for a bottle to not necessarily be identical to the site image, though for pre-70/77 I would normally expect to see an image of the actual bottle prior to purchase (though this can differ from the generic one used for marketing due to the reasons above).

Looking at your specific bottle: the shape seems about right. The capsule wax and label are unusual (I haven't seen these precisely before), however the capsule showing "Taylor", 1970 and "4xx" is all fine (see here for example on the 1969 Vargellas capsule. The label definitely looks like something someone has made up and added later, perhaps because they opened the case and it had unlabelled bottles within, so they wanted to put something on it. A little unusual, but plausible.

If I were buying for myself, I'd think it would probably be fine; if for a present I'd be less happy, especially at top price; has the store sent you an image of the other style they have? If so, and looks more "normal" then since this is a present I would probably take advantage of their offer to swap to alleviate your concerns. If you decide to stay with it, then I think you'll probably be ok (in regard to whether it is genuine) and if the bottle were likely to be opened in the near future rather you would have some recourse if the cork showed the wine to be anything other than as expected.

[noodle]

Hi All,

Thanks for your reply's, it is hard to decide what to do with the differing opinions!

Just a quick update, the supplier has offered to exchange the bottle for the one pictured.

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1970-Taylors-1.jpg (249.33 KiB) Viewed 6736 times

Do you think I should do the exchange or get a refund? this looks more authentic to me but is still lacking the serial number on the seal that I would have expected.

N

[PhilW]

Just a quick update, the supplier has offered to exchange the bottle for the one pictured.

Do you think I should do the exchange or get a refund? this looks more authentic to me but is still lacking the serial number on the seal that I would have expected.N

Oddly enough, having seen that bottle, I'd now be happy enough to keep the original; There is no selo (the strip of paper over the top, which I assume is what you were referring to as serial) but that is always the case for English-bottled (vs Oporto-bottled). Morgan Furze is a well known importer, label looks genuine. Most importantly, the capsule on this bottle looks identical to the one on the bottle you have received, making it highly likely to be from the same bottler, just with the facsimile label. If you want the additional piece of mind with genuine label since this is a present, then it may still be worth exchanging, but I would now be much less concerned about authenticity of your original bottle.

[Glenn E.]

Since you purchased the bottle as a gift, I would make the exchange. The offered exchange bottle is much more consistent with normal expectations for a 1970 Taylor and so will likely be more appealing to your gift recipient. A very serious Port collect might enjoy having the original bottle, but even those of us here would likely be divided on that particular question. I, for example, would prefer the offered exchange bottle.

That said, I agree with the others here that there's very likely nothing at all wrong with the original bottle. That's just a perfectly normal facsimile label, though one that I personally have never seen before.

[DRT]

For a gift I would take the exchange.

For my own drinking (or sharing) I would be tempted to take both and open at the same time.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I thought I'd add my comments to the overall confusion:

(1) I've bought from Vintage Wine Gifts and have always found them to be reputable, honest and reliable. If I've had a problem, they have fixed it. If I've had a question, it has been answered. If I've needed money refunded, it has been and promptly.

(2) I am convinced the bottle you have been sent is genuine. The bottle is clearly English Bottled and hence has no sello - not unusual for 1970 Taylor and often gives a better drinking experience today than port bottled in Portugal (because it might have been stored at lower temperatures). Bottle seal and shape all appear to me to be consistent with what I would expect to see for a Taylor 1970.

(3) The label appears to me to be genuine. I have seen these labels before and I am sure I have drunk Taylor 1970 that had this label on (and really enjoyed it). I wish I could remember who the bottler was that used these labels - or maybe it was one of the Oxbridge colleges. I just can't remember. If your friend is really into port then he might love to have one of these unusual labels that he can soak off and remember.

(4) The offered replacement bottle also appears to be genuine to me. This also appears to be English bottled but this comes with one of the official Taylor-supplied labels. If your friend is less experienced in port then he might prefer the official label.

But either way, I think you have been sent a genuine bottle of Taylor 1970 / offered a replacement that is a genuine bottle of Taylor 1970. You just have to decide which you think your friend would appreciate more.

Alex

[LGTrotter]

This may sound ridiculous but I wish to put a word in for the bottle of port. It's not good for these two poor little chaps to be sent hither and thither. The one you've got should be allowed to rest after it's travels, perhaps on it's side in the dark. It has waited a long time to be drunk and deserves to be treated tenderly.

Oh and Alex is spot on, again. *yawns*