I think it has been approved by the IVDP, which makes it different to the family reserve wines I think you are referring to, Tom. I might be wrong, but I think the term "Declaration" has no legal meaning and the status that the term now has is probably as a result of it being one of those ancient traditions that have been established over the past 30 to 40 yearsuncle tom wrote:There are always dozens of small library stock bottlings..
..if there are no plans to market it, then perhaps it shouldn't be on our little list...!
Tom
2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I wonder why they have done that, unless they are planning to sell some?DRT wrote:I think it has been approved by the IVDP, which makes it different to the family reserve wines I think you are referring to, Tom.
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Perhaps because without approval it isn't vintage port?JacobH wrote:I wonder why they have done that, unless they are planning to sell some?DRT wrote:I think it has been approved by the IVDP, which makes it different to the family reserve wines I think you are referring to, Tom.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I’m still not sure why that matters unless they are planning on selling it...As another suggestion, if they have it approved as Vintage Port by the IVDP, does that help their reserve stock levels requirements, even if they are not planning on selling it?DRT wrote:Perhaps because without approval it isn't vintage port?JacobH wrote:I wonder why they have done that, unless they are planning to sell some?DRT wrote:I think it has been approved by the IVDP, which makes it different to the family reserve wines I think you are referring to, Tom.
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
In an email exchange this evening...
Paul Symington wrote:Dear Derek,
We are not Declaring the 2009 Vintage Port, apart from a small quantity of Warre's 2009 Vintage Port. 500 cases of a special commemorative Warre have been bottled (each bottle numbered) to commemorate the liberation of Oporto in May 1809 by the Anglo-Portuguese army under the Duke of Wellington. William Warre, born in Oporto, fought in this campaign. He tried to hold a bridge over the Cavado river with a small band of local militia. He expected to meet stragglers from the French army who had been pushed out of Oporto. But Warre ended up facing Soult's entire army, who had Wellington closing fast on his tail. This wine is a dedication to his singular bravery at this action and the awards he won at the time. We will be contributing £4.00 on every bottle sold (£48.00 per case of 12) to Help the Heroes on all bottles sold in the UK and the equivalent on Portugal's sales to the Liga dos Combatentes. I expect that only about 360 cases will be available for the UK as we have to keep some for other markets.
The Warre's 2009 comes primarily from Cavadinha which is a higher vineyard than the river-side Quintas, so performed particularly well in this very dry year. We have also used some wine from the Warre's Retiro vineyard in the Rio Torto and from the Warre's Telhada Quinta near Vale de Meao, beyond Vesuvio. It is a truly remarkable wine and a landmark for Warre; deep and structured but with elegance and length and fantastically perfumed.
We are offering a small quantity of Quinta do Vesuvio 2009, 600 cases and 400 cases of Dow's Quinta da Senhora de Ribeira 2009, as we do in every good year. In both cases these wines come from the higher and more protected vineyards on these estates (Ribeira faces south, but the top vineyard, by the old water tank, faces north-east and is protected from the south and the afternoon sun) that suffered less from the dry weather and the hot summer. The Vesuvio has the classic velvet balance that always characterises this Quinta, with a steely backbone on the finish. The Ribeira is more austere, like all Dow, but has a lovely bitter-chocolate mid-palate.
We are also bottling Malvedos, Bomfim and Canais 2009, but these wines are being cellared now and will only be offered when they have gained some bottle-age.
2009 was a difficult year in our vineyards. Please see our harvest report written in October 2009 (available on our website). We had 31% less rain than average in the agricultural year, this after two dry years. We then had a warm August and early September, resulting in high graduations in many cases (often graduations increased in the lagares a few hours after crushing as some of the very dry grapes released their sugars) coupled in many cases with still green pips and stalks. The vines were finding it very difficult to ripen their fruit normally due to the lack of humidity. But the Douro is a region of micro-climates unlike virtually any other region on earth, so even in a challenging year like 2009, some small gems can be made.
The 2009's that we are offering (as above) are truly in very short supply, they will be true collectors Ports as they will never again become available. What is offered now is it. No more. So if anybody is interested they had better get onto their usual source of supply....!
Best wishes,
Paul
Joint Managing Director
Symington Family Estates
http://www.symington.com
Member of Primum Familiae Vini
http://www.pfv.org
DRT wrote:Thanks, Paul.
Could you please clarify something regarding the Canais 09?
I was lucky enough to be given the opportunity to taste it at The Big Fortified Tasting last month when I visited Henry and Tim on your stand. My recollection is that they told me that the Canais was such a small quantity that it would be "library stock only", with no intention for it to be released now or in the future. They did mention that Bomfim and Malvedos would be released in a decade or so and the Warre, Vesuvio and Dow Reibera being released imminently.
Have I got the story wrong on the Canais?
Regards
Derek
Paul Symington wrote:Hi Derek,
You have it right, the Canais 2009 is library stock. It will be used for tastings and so that we can make internal evaluations for the Quinta's wines over the years.
So the quantity is very small and it will never be released commercially.
Best,
Paul
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
It was one of the best...Paul Symington wrote:So the quantity is very small and it will never be released commercially.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
No, for the law of thirds it doesn't matter what sort of port your reserve is, all that matters is that it's port. I've seen one particular example where there were a number of tanks filled with the worst possible port, just to serve as reserve stock, while that producer only sells port in the 'premium' category.JacobH wrote:As another suggestion, if they have it approved as Vintage Port by the IVDP, does that help their reserve stock levels requirements, even if they are not planning on selling it?
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
But does the reserve stock still have to be certified by the IVDP? If so, it would be worth getting all library stocks certified so that they contribute to the third and reduce the number of tanks of rubbish kept to conform to the rule.RonnieRoots wrote:No, for the law of thirds it doesn't matter what sort of port your reserve is, all that matters is that it's port. I've seen one particular example where there were a number of tanks filled with the worst possible port, just to serve as reserve stock, while that producer only sells port in the 'premium' category.
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Is it not only Special Category styles that require approval?JacobH wrote:But does the reserve stock still have to be certified by the IVDP? If so, it would be worth getting all library stocks certified so that they contribute to the third and reduce the number of tanks of rubbish kept to conform to the rule.RonnieRoots wrote:No, for the law of thirds it doesn't matter what sort of port your reserve is, all that matters is that it's port. I've seen one particular example where there were a number of tanks filled with the worst possible port, just to serve as reserve stock, while that producer only sells port in the 'premium' category.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
True. This makes me realise, I have absolutely no idea how the Rule of Thirds works in practice and what sorts of Port are required to be held in reserve. I think I should stop pursuing this theory!DRT wrote:Is it not only Special Category styles that require approval?
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
My understanding of the law of thirds has always been that the stock held for compliance can be just about anything, and that age, type and approval status are irrelevant.
The original (and I presume, enduring) objective of the law, was to stop standard rubies being shipped out in an excessively young and raw state.
Unless I've got it wrong, you could ship out every last bottle of premium port in your inventory; provided you have twice the volume of standard ports retained in tanks somewhere.
Tom
The original (and I presume, enduring) objective of the law, was to stop standard rubies being shipped out in an excessively young and raw state.
Unless I've got it wrong, you could ship out every last bottle of premium port in your inventory; provided you have twice the volume of standard ports retained in tanks somewhere.
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I think that is exactly right.uncle tom wrote:Unless I've got it wrong, you could ship out every last bottle of premium port in your inventory; provided you have twice the volume of standard ports retained in tanks somewhere.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
And it is exactly what I said earlier.DRT wrote:I think that is exactly right.uncle tom wrote:Unless I've got it wrong, you could ship out every last bottle of premium port in your inventory; provided you have twice the volume of standard ports retained in tanks somewhere.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Having seen some more details about declarations (http://www.infoportwine.com lists a full declaration for Ramos Pinto; SQVP for Kopke, Burmester and Churchill; and no Vintage Port for Quevedo, Sandeman, Ferreira, Offley and Barros) 2009 is starting to look like quite an unusual year. I very much doubt that most of the shippers who have not produced anything in 2009 will fully or partially declare 2010, so a split declaration seems unlikely.
In terms of who declared and what was produced, 2009 looks much more like another 1982 than a 1972, though if 2010 isn’t widely declared, I can’t easily think of another similar year.
In terms of who declared and what was produced, 2009 looks much more like another 1982 than a 1972, though if 2010 isn’t widely declared, I can’t easily think of another similar year.
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Did anybody purchase any of the 2009 VP? I went for 6xTaylors.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I have also bought 6 Taylors, but will also buy some more over the next 12 months.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Julian, actually the regulations changed in 1986, not the late 1980's that allowed for the producers to bottle, promote and ship Ports from up in the Douro rather than just in Gaia. Other dynamics that should not be overlooked, with the smaller shippers and SQ producers along with the IVP regulations of 1986 ... was arguably:In the late 1980s the rules changed, permitting shipping from the Douro rather than from Gaia, which has hugely increased the number of ‟smaller shippers and independent quintas”.
a. ongoing consolidation and procurement of prominent Port firms from 1989-2005.
b. beginnings of the Douro wine explosion which is the reason that the majority of new/small SQ's went from just being growers to shippers. The amount of Port produced has not nearly increased as much as the volume of Douro wine has in that same period of time. Unless the financial viability of the Douro wines made it feasible to make Port, the Beneficio rights these producers held, would have continued to be sold under the radar. In many cases, producing Douro wines was like a poison pill that would have made arbitrage far more difficult and expensive for the large firms. This is something not often talked about and is denied by some, altogether.
Roy Hersh
http://www.fortheloveofport.com
http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
As to the Lei de Terco (Law of Thirds), Derek and others here who are subscribers to a newsletter have read AQFTPT which has specifically detailed this in the past.
Roy Hersh
http://www.fortheloveofport.com
http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
So, my running list goes like this:
Alves da Souza
Crasto
Croft
Cockburn Canais
Dow SdR
Dow Bomfim
Fonseca
Graham Malvedos
La Rosa
Niepoort
Niepoort Bioma
Nova
Passadouro
Pintas
No Quevedo
Skeffington
Taylor
Taylor VVV
Vale Dona Maria
Vesuvio
Warre
Am I missing anything?
Axel
Alves da Souza
Crasto
Croft
Cockburn Canais
Dow SdR
Dow Bomfim
Fonseca
Graham Malvedos
La Rosa
Niepoort
Niepoort Bioma
Nova
Passadouro
Pintas
No Quevedo
Skeffington
Taylor
Taylor VVV
Vale Dona Maria
Vesuvio
Warre
Am I missing anything?
Axel
Last edited by Axel P on 17:52 Mon 12 Sep 2011, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I thought Oscar was passing on 2009 - has he changed his mind?
Tom
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
You are correct, Tom, I just received 08 samples.
Axel
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
I don't have access to my notes, but is there a Duorum vintage port from 2009?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Yes, there is, Alex. New List:
Alves da Souza
Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo
Crasto
Croft
Cockburn Canais
Delaforce
Duorum
Dow SdR
Dow Bomfim
Fonseca
Graham Malvedos
Kopke Quinta Sao Luiz
Krohn
Krohn Retiro Novo
La Rosa
Niepoort
Niepoort Bioma
Nova
Passadouro
Pintas
Ramos Pinto Ervamoira
Rozes
Seara d'Ordens
Skeffington
Taylor
Taylor VVV
Vale Dona Maria
Vesuvio
Vista Allegre
Warre
Alves da Souza
Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo
Crasto
Croft
Cockburn Canais
Delaforce
Duorum
Dow SdR
Dow Bomfim
Fonseca
Graham Malvedos
Kopke Quinta Sao Luiz
Krohn
Krohn Retiro Novo
La Rosa
Niepoort
Niepoort Bioma
Nova
Passadouro
Pintas
Ramos Pinto Ervamoira
Rozes
Seara d'Ordens
Skeffington
Taylor
Taylor VVV
Vale Dona Maria
Vesuvio
Vista Allegre
Warre
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
Interestingly, I've been seeing Malvedos on the market recently.DRT wrote:In an email exchange this evening...Paul Symington wrote:Dear Derek,
We are also bottling Malvedos, Bomfim and Canais 2009, but these wines are being cellared now and will only be offered when they have gained some bottle-age.
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Re: 2009 Vintage Port Declarations and Predictions
The 2009 Malvedos was released in the USA only since no Warre's was sent to the States. The distributors here raised a bit of a ruckus about not getting any Warre's so they sent the Malvedos as a stand-in, a mighty fine stand-in I may add.SushiNorth wrote:Interestingly, I've been seeing Malvedos on the market recently.DRT wrote:In an email exchange this evening...Paul Symington wrote:Dear Derek,
We are also bottling Malvedos, Bomfim and Canais 2009, but these wines are being cellared now and will only be offered when they have gained some bottle-age.