Professional storage - insurance

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uncle tom
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Professional storage - insurance

Post by uncle tom »

I've been doing a few calculations on the economics of providing professional storage of wines, and there's one factor that jumps off the page.

Insurance

Insurance costs are proportionate to the value of the item being insured, so it would seem rational for higher value wines to incur higher storage charges.

- But this doesn't seem to happen.

Moreover, the cost of insurance is not so insignificant as to be an irrelevance - my initial estimates suggest that insurance costs might consume around 25% of revenue, if the cover is to be adequate; and that if you apply a 'one price fits all' approach, you would be on to a serious loss maker if you stored first growths.

Now, the existing storage contractors are not charitable foundations, looking after cases of Lafite for the honour of doing so; they are businesses with an eye to a profit.

Looking at their respective terms and conditions, I found the following form of words repeated:
"This insurance is intended to cover a Customer for loss of stock incurred during 'day to day' business activities and not a major loss caused by some catastrophic occurrence"
Which means that while they have some degree of insurance, they do not have the cover that many of their customers might expect, and that events such as fire, flood, or even a major fraud or theft; could leave the customer out of pocket.

It follows that those using these facilities should ensure that their home insurance is extended to cover their wines in storage.

Tom
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JacobH
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by JacobH »

uncle tom wrote:Looking at their respective terms and conditions, I found the following form of words repeated:
"This insurance is intended to cover a Customer for loss of stock incurred during 'day to day' business activities and not a major loss caused by some catastrophic occurrence"
Which means that while they have some degree of insurance, they do not have the cover that many of their customers might expect, and that events such as fire, flood, or even a major fraud or theft; could leave the customer out of pocket.
I wonder what they actually mean by that. Damage caused by '"day to day" business activities' would appear to me to be things like their workers dropping a case. In those situations, the purpose of the insurance would be to protect the warehouse; the damage would be likely to be recoverable by the customer from the warehouse in any event.

I think it may be the case that that phrase is simply badly drafted. Looking at the next section of the Seckford's Terms and Conditions, the only "catastrophe" exceptions it gives are:
Which is a consequence or war, invasion, act of foreign enemy, hostilities (whether war is declared or not) or acts of terrorism.
Which is due to confiscation, requisition, detention or destruction by or by order of any government, public or local authority.
These are traditional insurance exceptions which are likely to be found in most "off-the-shelf" insurance policies. Octavian has similar conditions. Since the insurance is "all risks", any that is not excluded should be covered. It would seem possible to me that damage sure destruction of the warehouse would therefore be covered.

It may be that they are actually trying to disclaim something else: that they may be under-insured. When that "day to day" sentence is read in context on Octavian's site, it seems clear that what they are saying is that they think they are covered when they drop a case or two but if the warehouse was destroyed they may not be covered for the full value of the goods stored therein.
Octavian is not aware of the actual value of Customer's goods and gives no warranty that its insurance cover will be sufficient in the event of a catastrophic loss. This 'All Risks' extension is intended to cover Customer's for loss of stock incurred during 'day to day' business activities and not a major loss caused by some catastrophic occurrence. In the event of claims exceeding the total sum insured by Octavian, a Customer's claim will be settled out of the total amount recovered from Octavian's insurer pro-rata in the proportion that the value of that Customer's claim bears to the total value of all Customer's claims.
The first statement is, however, a bit surprising. I don't know a great deal about the insurance market, but I'm surprised that any company would be prepared to offer cover without a reasonable estimate of the value of the goods being insured. It is also alarming that there is no guarantee that the "total sum insured" is even a reasonable estimate of the value of the goods. Who is to say that the total insurance is any more than £1?

I am somewhat more impressed with Vinotheque's statement:
All wine entrusted to Vinotheque is automatically insured "All risks" to full replacement cost. The cost of the premium is included within the storage charge. Because of our excellent claims record normally uninsurable risks such as unexplained loss are also covered. Cover also extends to delivery in our, or our subcontractor's, vehicles.
and, in particular:
Cellarage will be at our Vinotheque fine wine warehouse in Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire.
Two storage options are available as follows -

Option 1 ”“ Limited insurance cover.
[...]
All wines cellared with Vinotheque are automatically insured against ‟all risks” at full replacement
value, but subject to a maximum value of £7500 per 9 litre case.

Option 2 ”“ Unlimited insurance cover.
[...]
All wines cellared with Vinotheque are automatically insured against ‟all risks” at full replacement
value with no limit.
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benread
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by benread »

Should anyone be struggling to sleep, I am more than willing to discuss the finer points of insurance!
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JacobH
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by JacobH »

benread wrote:Should anyone be struggling to sleep, I am more than willing to discuss the finer points of insurance!
What do you think about the following? Could Octavian really get insurance without a serious estimate of the value of the goods they are stocking?
JacobH wrote:
Octavian is not aware of the actual value of Customer's goods and gives no warranty that its insurance cover will be sufficient in the event of a catastrophic loss. This 'All Risks' extension is intended to cover Customer's for loss of stock incurred during 'day to day' business activities and not a major loss caused by some catastrophic occurrence. In the event of claims exceeding the total sum insured by Octavian, a Customer's claim will be settled out of the total amount recovered from Octavian's insurer pro-rata in the proportion that the value of that Customer's claim bears to the total value of all Customer's claims.
The first statement is, however, a bit surprising. I don't know a great deal about the insurance market, but I'm surprised that any company would be prepared to offer cover without a reasonable estimate of the value of the goods being insured. It is also alarming that there is no guarantee that the "total sum insured" is even a reasonable estimate of the value of the goods. Who is to say that the total insurance is any more than £1?
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benread
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by benread »

Jacob,

It is probably not the case they don't have an estimate, but rather they have selected a limit without specifically knowing what the current value of all wines is. What does surprise me slightly though is that I believe all storage facilities would require a value / inventory on accepting new wines into storage. I do accept that wines age in unpredictable and different ways, so they would need regularly inspecting to be certain of value.

I suspect the caveat is simply to protect them. It is also worth mentioning that all policies have riot, civil commotion, war and nuclear exclusions. This is because the government picks up the tabs for these eventualities, being considered too large for the private sector to manage. A bit like bank failures!

What I would hope is that they have a good estimate of the value, because as you say, there appears no obligation on the to do so. If I had wines there, I would be inclined to ask what the total limit was!

As an aside, there was a post on FTLOP about an insurance scheme for private individuals. I understand a similar scheme will be available in the UK soon. Happy to discuss privately with anyone interested.
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uncle tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by uncle tom »

It would appear that Vinotheque do have proper insurance cover, but also have the highest storage charges; which, as they say, figures..

The other providers of storage facilities seem to rely on the standard terms of UK Warehousing Association, which specifically require clients to make their own insurance arrangements:

http://www.vinotheque.co.uk/Documents/UKWA-CUSTOMS.pdf

Note section 3 on the second page.

The claims made by the others to have insurance cover seem misleading, as it would appear that the maximum amount that their insurers might be required to pay out is limited to that which might forseeably arise in normal day to day operations - perhaps £100k or less - which won't go very far if a flood or fire causes £10m worth of losses.

This limitation to liability would dramatically reduce their premiums.

Tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

This is the relevant section from Berry Brothers' terms and conditions for storage:
Insurance: Customers' Private Reserves are insured at our estimate of the replacement market value. We accept no liability should our estimate be incorrect.
I'm happy with that, although it still leaves the value of any insurance claim arising from a catastrophic loss open to some uncertainty as I have no idea of the accuracy of the estimate of the replacement market value - or how the replacement market value might change should Berry's (or anyone, for that matter) suddenly have to replace a warehouse full of customers' reserves.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by JacobH »

AHB wrote:This is the relevant section from Berry Brothers' terms and conditions for storage:
Interesting that the most established of the wine storers (Berry’s and LBW which owns Vinotheque) are the most generous and least likely to leave the storer with problems in the event of a catastrophe.
benread wrote:What does surprise me slightly though is that I believe all storage facilities would require a value / inventory on accepting new wines into storage.
Indeed, especially as if they are storing in bond, one condition for accepting the wines for storage is an invoice which gives their purchase price. They should therefore be able to insure at least at the value of the wines when accepted into the bond.
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uncle tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by uncle tom »

The more I look at this, the smellier it gets, and I have a horrible feeling that some of the big wine merchants either don't know, or are turning a blind eye to; the reality of the situation.

At a rough reckoning, a case of Ch. Ausone 2009 will cost around four times more to insure than it costs to store (supposedly with insurance) - that can't be right..

..my belief is that the merchants are putting their faith in insurance arrangements that exclude forseeable major disasters like fire or flood, and that unless they get their act together; sooner or later, there is likely to be a major mishap that sees customers left without cover and merchants going to the wall.

This is a not a good situation - it needs to be sorted before an event forces the issue..

Tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by DRT »

This is a really interesting debate and one that I am personally interested to know the truth of as around 75% of my port is currently in one of these facilities. I'm no insurance or legal expert so will have to sit back and let others do the work to find out what the situation is.

However, Tom's last point gives food for thought for the insurer. If an event of the type Tom describes has not yet happened it suggests that the risk of losing vast quantities of wine in this way is minimal at best. Presumably that should be reflected in the premium? :wink:
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uncle tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by uncle tom »

If an event of the type Tom describes has not yet happened it suggests that the risk of losing vast quantities of wine in this way is minimal at best. Presumably that should be reflected in the premium?
Whilst one insures one's house against fire, one sincerely hopes never to have to claim - property insurance is all about guarding against minimal risks.

I'm advised that the premium for properly insuring warehoused wine is likely to be in the order of 0.3% p.a. - an assumption that the risk of loss of any given case is in the order of once in more than 300 years - which can seem vanishingly small.

But if you divide that number by the number of major storage facilities, you can also conclude that the chances of one of them suffering a major calamity over a period of ten years is actually quite high.

Tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by DRT »

uncle tom wrote:if you divide that number by the number of major storage facilities, you can also conclude that the chances of one of them suffering a major calamity over a period of ten years is actually quite high.
Does anyone know whether or not there has been such an incident since the end of WWII?
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uncle tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by uncle tom »

Does anyone know whether or not there has been such an incident since the end of WWII?
None that I'm aware of, which may go towards explaining the apparent complacency of the trade.

Tom
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by DRT »

uncle tom wrote:
Does anyone know whether or not there has been such an incident since the end of WWII?
None that I'm aware of, which may go towards explaining the apparent complacency of the trade.

Tom
Or it could be that the trade consider the risk to be so low that it is not worth paying the insurance companies vast sums of money to insure a risk that is probably never going to materialise? That would explain why they do pay to insure risks relating to "day to day business", as those are the risks that do and will occur.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by jdaw1 »

Would a letter to the Financial Services Authority be productive? (This is a question, not a suggestion.)
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by benread »

jdaw1 wrote:Would a letter to the Financial Services Authority be productive? (This is a question, not a suggestion.)
I am not sure it would because:
  • They are in the process of being closed down by the government
  • I am not sure storage organisations are regulated by them
  • I think the position taken would be that it is for each business to take advice (from an insurance broker) as to the appropriate levels of insurance for their needs
  • they will probably take the view that anyone with enough cash to have £10,000 cases of wine in storage is not vulnerable in terms of society!
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

DRT wrote:Does anyone know whether or not there has been such an incident since the end of WWII?
I remember at least one major theft where a London wine merchant had their storage facilities emptied of all valuable wine by thieves. I think it was about 10 years ago.

From the Environment Agency's flood maps, Seckfords warehouse in Melton appears to be in a flood risk area.

Berry's is not in a flood risk area, according to the EA maps.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

benread wrote:I am not sure storage organisations are regulated by them
I can confirm that storage organisations are not regulated by the FSA; they are resellers of insurance and not providers of insurance. There are regulations associated with the reselling of insurance, but not enforced by the FSA.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by jdaw1 »

I’ll take that as a ‘no’.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by DRT »

AHB wrote:From the Environment Agency's flood maps, Seckfords warehouse in Melton appears to be in a flood risk area.
There is a secure stone-built shelter on top of Ben Nevis that we could perhaps use as our flood-proof storage area?
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by g-man »

uncle tom wrote:The more I look at this, the smellier it gets, and I have a horrible feeling that some of the big wine merchants either don't know, or are turning a blind eye to; the reality of the situation.

At a rough reckoning, a case of Ch. Ausone 2009 will cost around four times more to insure than it costs to store (supposedly with insurance) - that can't be right..

..my belief is that the merchants are putting their faith in insurance arrangements that exclude forseeable major disasters like fire or flood, and that unless they get their act together; sooner or later, there is likely to be a major mishap that sees customers left without cover and merchants going to the wall.

This is a not a good situation - it needs to be sorted before an event forces the issue..

Tom
I have a separate policy from my storage company for the wines I store with them and the price of the insurance is indeed more expensive then the cost to store the bottle.

I have a case of Lafite hanging around and it costs me only 2.25$/month to store it but the insurnace is north of 10$/month or 2% per year the value I want insured.

My insurance covers replacement of bottle and includes catastrophic acts of god.

Day to day insurance ie, breakage from employees is covered under my 2.25$/month under the storage places insurance policy.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by SushiNorth »

I wrote a story on Insuring your Port for Roy's newsletter. In the US, wine insurance (outside of that provided by an offsite storage facility) is nigh impossible to get. There is one company (Bliss & Glennon) offering a reasonable product called insureyourwine.com, which (listen up UK folks) is using Royal & Sun Alliance’s Marine Insurance Company in England. You may be able to get an independent policy through them; my policy covers wine stored at my location or at an offsite facility.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I raised the issue of insurance with Seckfords. Seckfords have investigated their insurance cover and have found that what they offer to clients is much wider than indicated by the Storage Terms & Conditions on their website.

I have been promised that the Terms & Conditions on the website will be updated to reflect the enhanced cover that is offered. This may have already been done, I haven't been able to check. Anyone who wants assurance over the security of their wines in store before the update should contact Seckfords directly.

Next on my list of storage companies will be Private Reserves.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by marc j. »

I just did a bit of checking and insureyourwine.com does offer some very competitive rates. Compared to what I've been paying, they are just a tab bit less expensive. Although the application process is far easier than what I initially went through when I purchased my first policy through my current insurer.
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Re: Professional storage - insurance

Post by SushiNorth »

marc j. wrote:I just did a bit of checking and insureyourwine.com does offer some very competitive rates. Compared to what I've been paying, they are just a tab bit less expensive. Although the application process is far easier than what I initially went through when I purchased my first policy through my current insurer.
Marc, who've you been using? I'd be curious to hear what other competitors are out there, beyond insureyourwine.com.
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