Strawberry Fields Forever (Mon 1st July - Spot The Taylor Vertical)

[akzy]

A thought if you really want to make sure that you dont know your bottle and that everyone can help with pouring.

1. Glenn would have to create a random mapping of a person attending and bottle to a numbered bottle setting, a greek letter, and a might I suggest a windings character (?). Additionally, the first half of numbered bottle settings are assigned as group A and second half group B
2. Everyone is assigned a numbered bottle setting by Glenn for their pre-event disguised bottle which is covered in foil. For the reveal at the end, I'd suggest the bottle is marked with the contents, again, prior to the event.
3. The attendees place their bottle one group at a time at the numbered bottle setting
4. One attendee from each group receives a mapping from Glenn about which numbered bottle setting in the other group is assigned to which greek letter, assigns the greek letter to the bottle, then shuffles them. For instance, JDAW submits a bottle for group A. Glenn sends JDAW the mapping of numbered bottle settings in group B to greek letters. JDAW then labels each bottle in group B with greek letter and then shuffles the numbered bottle positions around in group B such that the information is destroyed.
5. Same as the previous step but with someone from the opposite group.
6. A third attendee receives the greek letter to windings mapping from Glenn which they use to replace the greek letter identifiers
7. All bottles should be disguised in foil and with only a windings identifier. If this is not the case - give up.

With this no one should know what their bottle is and everyone can help with pouring.

Is it worth it? No.
Should you do it anyways? This has never stopped TPF in the past.

[Christopher]

If there is space I would love to come
Please use cmag as my port forum name to avoid confusion with other Christopher’s
I can provide 55 or 63/66
Thanks

[jdaw1]

Is it worth it?

Different question. How fragile is this?

If this is not the case - give up.

It won’t be the case.

[Glenn E.]

Is it worth it? No.

Correct.

Should you do it anyways? This has never stopped TPF in the past.

Also no.

Seriously, that sounds like a lot of extra fiddling for not a lot of extra benefit.

[Christopher]

Apologies just realised I have a diary clash and cannot make it
Have a fun evening

[akzy]

Is it worth it?

Different question. How fragile is this?

It shouldn't be terribly fragile. The nice thing is it does have redundancy built in with that there should be two records of whats in the bottle - the bottle itself and Glenn's record. Should the labelling be messed up, at the end of the evening, you'd always have them to correct the scores.

If you skip step 6 and just do the group splitting, this is likely good enough. The advantage would be that the two people who labelled in steps 4 & 5 would know that their bottle is in the other Greek letters giving them a 1 in 9 chance (presuming there's 9 bottles in each group) of identifying their bottle as opposed to the normal 1 in 18.

The final thing to say is this works if everything is done randomly. We humans are generally terrible at this. I believe that the most likely outcome at the end of steps 4 & 5 was that none were shuffled. This gives a very slight advantage to the person in step 6 who would have a better than usual chance of identifying their bottle if they can correctly assume that humans are at best pseudo random and lazy.

Should you do it anyways? This has never stopped TPF in the past.

Also no.

Seriously, that sounds like a lot of extra fiddling for not a lot of extra benefit.

Oh yeah. But if you wanted it truly blind then I think this is the simplest that relies on TPF members only and easiest at tasting setup.

[hadge]

i think that the idea of this tasting has been lost a little.

I believe the idea is to spot the Taylor in each vintage and does Taylor have a style across all of its vintages.

therefore my understand is, we know what vintages are coming and we will be trying each vintage against the other wines from that vintage. to see if we can spot the Taylor.

If we are going blind, blind where everything is mixed up across the board and don't have even that information then great fun.

happy either way.

[cem]

Yes the idea is we have three bottles per vintage. Each vintage is numbered 1 to 3. We don't know what producer is on what number. We just know the vintage and that one of them is a Taylor. Game is guess the Taylor. 2nd game is guess the other producers in that vintage. Each of us will know one producer for one particular vintage so we have an advantage in that vintage (extra general derision if any of us get that wrong). Lastly is the tiebreaker I wrote before.

[Glenn E.]

Yes the idea is we have three bottles per vintage. Each vintage is numbered 1 to 3. We don't know what producer is on what number. We just know the vintage and that one of them is a Taylor. Game is guess the Taylor. 2nd game is guess the other producers in that vintage. Each of us will know one producer for one particular vintage so we have an advantage in that vintage (extra general derision if any of us get that wrong). Lastly is the tiebreaker I wrote before.

I also suggest that there be no reveals until the end of the evening.

[Glenn E.]

If I could get PMs from Ian and Harry I could finalize the list and let people know what they are to bring.

I also still need to hear from Seckfords if that's still in the works.

[Alex M]

It it with significant regret that I must withdraw from this tasting owing to work commitments. CEM - please accept my sincere apologies.

[cem]

Understood Alex, work takes precedence.

[DRT]

As a founder member of this forum and a once very regular attendee at the tastings I must say that I am overwhelmed with joy to read the geek-tastic way in which this tasting is being arranged. Bravo! I hope you all have a splendid evening

[jdaw1]

A draft of the placemats has been added to the first post.

It includes decanter labels, which are to be stapled to an under-label on which something intelligent has been written.

[flash_uk]

A draft of the placemats has been added to the first post.

It includes decanter labels, which are to be stapled to an under-label on which something intelligent has been written.

Could the placemats be simplified to just alpha, beta, gamma for each year? It’s been a while since my further maths A-level, and while I just about recognise kappa, lambda, mu, pi, rho, sigma…I’m struggling with a few of these (the full word for the letter being quite small).

[jdaw1]

Could the placemats be simplified to just alpha, beta, gamma for each year? It’s been a while since my further maths A-level, and while I just about recognise kappa, lambda, mu, pi, rho, sigma…I’m struggling with a few of these

No. Because that would suggest that α55 and α63 and etc are all the same shipper, which is not necessarily so.

Indeed, this possible problem is why every circle has an Overtitle that is the English-written name of the Greek letter.

To be nice, I have slightly enlarged the Overtitle.

[Glenn E.]

The tasting is in 2 weeks, and with the withdrawal of Alex M. we now have a small problem.

That problem is that we're now 2 bottles short of the goal of having 3 bottles from each vintage.

As I have things currently planned out, 1955, 1966, and 1977 are all one bottle short. But I still have not received Harry's list, nor do I yet know which 1963 has been assigned to Christopher (but that vintage is at least picked), so my hope is that I will be able to plug one of those holes with Harry's bottle. But that still leaves 2 holes.

What should I do?

(I did manage to pull off some shenanigans, but not all of the shenanigans that I wanted. Hopefully what I managed to achieve will be fun and interesting to those attending.)

[jdaw1]

That problem is that we're now 2 bottles short of the goal of having 3 bottles from each vintage.

Have you restricted to one bottle per person? If that constraint is binding, please bin it.

(I did manage to pull off some shenanigans, but not all of the shenanigans that I wanted. Hopefully what I managed to achieve will be fun and interesting to those attending.)

Perfect.

[hadge]

I will pass details to Glenn, just in the process of the small cellar move, so might have a better idea of what i have at the end of this.

[Glenn E.]

That problem is that we're now 2 bottles short of the goal of having 3 bottles from each vintage.

Have you restricted to one bottle per person? If that constraint is binding, please bin it.

Binned.

I now have Harry's list and am getting a list of additional bottles from Neil, so I think I can wrap this up and get PMs out to everyone with what I have selected for them to bring. I will try to complete that today or tomorrow. (Probably tomorrow, since it is a new federal holiday in the US since COVID and I get the day off.)

[jdaw1]

I have a blinding plan, robust to most of the vagaries of our constraints.

i.  In advance there will have been strung (i.e., holes punched; string run through and tied) twenty blank former business cards (being decanter labels). Type ① decanter labels = these strung blanks.

ii.  Not-strung, there will also be an extra twenty blanks. Type ② decanter labels = these not-strung blank cards.

iii.  Not-strung, there will also be extras to which have been glued the printed α55, β55, γ55,  δ63, ε63, ζ63,  η66, θ66, ι66,  κ77, λ77, μ77,  ν85, ξ85, ο85,  π70, ρ70, σ70, τ70, υ70 (’70s at end so they all go on the same glasses page). Type ③ = these not-strung Greek-and-Vintage cards.

iv.  We use and re-use multiple decanters.

v.  When somebody arrives with bottle, that person decants, or re-decants, it into a decanter.

vi.  Immediately, the same person writes on a strung type-① card what it is, in the format “D78”.

vii.  Immediately, the same person staples over that a type-② blank card, and writes on the type-② card the bottle’s Vintage but not its shipper. (Please could several of us attempt to remember to bring a stapler!)

viii.  After a pause, after other things have arrived and been likewise (re-)decanted and the decanters shuffled, somebody else over-staples the blank type-② cards with a Greek-and-Vintage type-③ card, obviously one of those of matching Vintage.

ix.  The decanter is pre-poured and glasses distributed.

x.  That decanter being empty, the decanter label is removed and stored in a pile somewhere safe.

xi. That decanter can then be reused.

xii.  When we have finished voting, the stored three-card-thick decanter labels can then be gently torn apart, thus revealing truth.

Given our constraints, such as people arriving at different times, this seems to me to be the best realistically achievable. Do others agree?

(If improvements are suggested, of plan or of wording, then this post might be edited.)

[cem]

Sorry, I'm on business in NY and will be back on Monday so haven't been checking. The blinding plan looks good, if the decanters look the same. I could bring some identical decanters if the B&F's are all unique and obvious.

[Glenn E.]

Port assignments are ready and I will send out PMs shortly. I hope you all have a great time!

[Glenn E.]

PMs have now all been sent so everyone should now have the Ports that they are to bring.

I had an immediate idea for some shenanigans that unfortunately proved impossible. But I was able to come up with secondary shenanigans and then a few more so it should be fun.

[cem]

Thanks Glenn!

[jdaw1]

secondary shenanigans and then a few

Lordy!

Thank you.

Glenn says that the assignment means that there are five 1970s (very much a first-world problem), and three of each of the other vintages. The placemats have been accordingly updated, as have the images in the first post (though a force-reload might be necessary).

People: please read the blinding plan.

[flash_uk]

People: please read the blinding plan.

I have read the blinding plan.
Thank you Julian, for putting it forward - reading it has allowed me to see one potential challenge, which is how do the Taylor bottles get handled in a way that preserves blinding and does not require lots of decanters? Can I proposed a slight adaptation of your method?

I think we only need 5 identical decanters, as that is the greatest number of bottles in any vintage (1970). I can bring 5 identical, clean, empty S20YO bottles.

As people arrive, they should declare which vintage they have ports for. As soon as all the ports for a vintage are present, then your blinding method is applied for that vintage.

It is important that the decanters are identical, otherwise extra steps are needed to preserve blinding. I can explain those steps if required.

[flash_uk]

Scoring this will be entertaining! Will we need to submit guesses on a slip of paper in secret? Could perhaps print the "What is it?" sheet 10 times and each person completes it for themselves?

[hadge]

I have a guest joining us for this fun and games. I'm bring his bottle already on Glenn's list and acounted for on placemats

name for placemats etc is, Gavin C.

[hadge]

We need to do a food order for this tasting by Monday (please correct me if wrong)?

if you don't want your Standard Food Order then please post in the thread below otherwise you will get what is on the order and if there is nothing on there for you, then I will order for you (remember I don't eat the cheesy rabbit!)

[jdaw1]

We need to do a food order for this tasting by Monday (please correct me if wrong)?

From Davy’s B&F Dining Menu:
• Ham hock terrine;
• To share with Mike, Chateaubriand, blue, with carrots and skinny fries;
• Bramdean pudding, or if not available, Welsh Rarebit.

Thank you.

[jdaw1]

I think we only need 5 identical decanters, as that is the greatest number of bottles in any vintage (1970). I can bring 5 identical, clean, empty S20YO bottles.

Cliff has volunteered multiple identical decanters — but bring yours as backup.

Don’t forget that we will have the extra constraint that people do not arrive simultaneously.

[Alex Bridgeman]

We need to do a food order for this tasting by Monday (please correct me if wrong)?

if you don't want your Standard Food Order then please post in the thread below otherwise you will get what is on the order and if there is nothing on there for you, then I will order for you (remember I don't eat the cheesy rabbit!)

Rib-eye medium rare with skinny chips and roasted carrots for me please. No starter, no dessert.

[cem]

Mike, if you don't mind bringing the decanters that would be a help actually as I will be traveling with a lot of bottles

[cem]

Thanks for sorting the food order Harry

Salmon (no chilli dressing)
Pork belly + extra broccoli (no chilli)
no dessert

[flash_uk]

Mike, if you don't mind bringing the decanters that would be a help actually as I will be traveling with a lot of bottles

No probs, will do.

[flash_uk]

We need to do a food order for this tasting by Monday (please correct me if wrong)?

From Davy’s B&F Dining Menu:
• Ham hock terrine;
• To share with Mike, Chateaubriand, blue, with carrots and skinny fries;
• Bramdean pudding, or if not available, Welsh Rarebit.

Thank you.

Food order for me:
Potted crab to start
Sharing the Chateaubriand with JDAW
Fries
Broccoli
Welsh rarebit

Many thanks

[flash_uk]

I think we only need 5 identical decanters, as that is the greatest number of bottles in any vintage (1970). I can bring 5 identical, clean, empty S20YO bottles.

Don’t forget that we will have the extra constraint that people do not arrive simultaneously.

Indeed that constraint is the reason why Cliff's 6 Taylor should not be decanted en masse, as it would mean at least a further 2 if not perhaps even a further 4/5/6 decanters would be required. Using the amended approach, people can arrive in dribs and drabs. A blinding cycle can commence when all the ports of a vintage are present, rather than waiting for everyone to arrive.

Were non-identical decanters to be used, it would be quite inconvenient for the subset of people who have re-decanted, as they would need to avoid seeing the greeked decanter they have just used, until the prepouring was complete.

[flash_uk]

I think we only need 5 identical decanters, as that is the greatest number of bottles in any vintage (1970). I can bring 5 identical, clean, empty S20YO bottles.

Cliff has volunteered multiple identical decanters — but bring yours as backup.

Don’t forget that we will have the extra constraint that people do not arrive simultaneously.

And now I have one further amendment.

vii.  Immediately, the same person staples over that a type-② blank card, and writes on the type-② card the bottle’s Vintage but not its shipper. (Please could several of us attempt to remember to bring a stapler!)

Those type-② blank card, should not be blank, rather someone in advance should pre-write the required vintages on them. Otherwise the blinder at step viii will to their annoyance see a pattern of Cliff's handwriting...

[flash_uk]

I think we only need 5 identical decanters, as that is the greatest number of bottles in any vintage (1970). I can bring 5 identical, clean, empty S20YO bottles.

Cliff has volunteered multiple identical decanters — but bring yours as backup.

Don’t forget that we will have the extra constraint that people do not arrive simultaneously.

And now I have one further amendment.

vii.  Immediately, the same person staples over that a type-② blank card, and writes on the type-② card the bottle’s Vintage but not its shipper. (Please could several of us attempt to remember to bring a stapler!)

Those type-② blank card, should not be blank, rather someone in advance should pre-write the required vintages on them. Otherwise the blinder at step viii will to their annoyance see a pattern of Cliff's handwriting...

[mcoulson]

.
right so this is now so complicated I've almost lot the will to live

however I completely get it and am 100% behind this level of sillyness .... silliness is very good ….

I have in my possession a couple of items that will resolve these issues ....

I own a label printer like this
.

printer.jpg (17.19 KiB) Viewed 16674 times

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And I have loads of postal tags like this
.

Blank.jpg (16.58 KiB) Viewed 16674 times

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I can print out the years and the stickers will cover the first postal tag with the ‘D63’ written by the bringer of the bottle
.

63.jpg (15.72 KiB) Viewed 16674 times

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I can also print all the Greek stuff and we can use that to wrap over the ‘63’ with ‘δ63’
.

Greek.jpg (14.18 KiB) Viewed 16674 times

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I think this deals with the hand writing issues ….. and also the staplers

Happy to do this is Julian thinks it fits ? hes the man in charge of the process

[flash_uk]

I think the slight challenge with stickers is that at the conclusion, we need to get back to the base card/declaration. Using stickers runs the risk that removing the stickers rips off the layer with the written reveal?

[mcoulson]

I think the slight challenge with stickers is that at the conclusion, we need to get back to the base card/declaration. Using stickers runs the risk that removing the stickers rips off the layer with the written reveal?

No there are two post it tags in the pile so the reveal at the end will work ....

[flash_uk]

I think the slight challenge with stickers is that at the conclusion, we need to get back to the base card/declaration. Using stickers runs the risk that removing the stickers rips off the layer with the written reveal?

No there are two post it tags in the pile so the reveal at the end will work ....

Ah OK, got it.

[hadge]

Just so I competely understand what I'm meant to be doing and what happens when I arrive,

I bring a decanted bottle which has been decanted back into its port bottle in foil (is that what has been agreed)? so they will look nearly all of the same.

when I arrive, I pick up 2 post it tags and a label with the vintage on it, then I write what is in the bottle on the first tag, then place the second tag over it and the stick the vintage tag over second label holding them both together. tags get placed around the neck of the bottle.

I take the bottle and place it with the other bottles from that vintage, so they are in a group together for someone else to stick on the greek sticker and decant into other decanters.

I might be asked to decant and poor a different vintage from the one that i brought with me.

[mcoulson]

Just so I competely understand what I'm meant to be doing and what happens when I arrive,

I bring a decanted bottle which has been decanted back into its port bottle in foil (is that what has been agreed)? so they will look nearly all of the same.

when I arrive, I pick up 2 post it tags and a label with the vintage on it, then I write what is in the bottle on the first tag, then place the second tag over it and the stick the vintage tag over second label holding them both together. tags get placed around the neck of the bottle.

I take the bottle and place it with the other bottles from that vintage, so they are in a group together for someone else to stick on the greek sticker and decant into other decanters.

I might be asked to decant and poor a different vintage from the one that i brought with me.

That's what I'm expecting to do ...

[jdaw1]

Those type-② blank card, should not be blank, rather someone in advance should pre-write the required vintages on them. Otherwise the blinder at step viii will to their annoyance see a pattern of Cliff's handwriting...

Agreed. The type-② are now in the extended decanter label set:


But Martin’s method, if I have understood, also works.
• Post label on which the full truth is written.
• Another label goes on top of that, and a larger sticker labelled with the vintage then binds them together.
• Over that vintage label is then placed a third sticker, of the form ‘α55’.

[flash_uk]

Those type-② blank card, should not be blank, rather someone in advance should pre-write the required vintages on them. Otherwise the blinder at step viii will to their annoyance see a pattern of Cliff's handwriting...

Agreed. The type-② are now in the extended decanter label set:


But Martin’s method, if I have understood, also works.
• Post label on which the full truth is written.
• Another label goes on top of that, and a larger sticker labelled with the vintage then binds them together.
• Over that vintage label is then placed a third sticker, of the form ‘α55’.

Yes that’s how I understand it. All seems good with that approach. Together with identical decanters, we should be sorted.

[jdaw1]

Martin: either you are printing labels, or I am gluing decanter labels. Either works. Unless Cliff opines soon, you choose.

[mcoulson]

I will bring postal tags and printed sticky labels to deal with the bottles I can also print the place settings ....