Decanting time?

[jdaw1]

What is the recommended decanting time for a bottle of port described by the auction house as “unknown vintage port†. Something between five minutes and two days presumably. What would you do if it had to be drunk in one evening?

[Conky]

The Unknown Vintage Port would have to go alongside Unkown Decanting Time!

But on the grounds it will be old, sooner rather than later.

Surely the esscence of such a bottle, is adventure. Set a night to one side, and experiment. Sounds fun.

Alan

[Alex Bridgeman]

What would you do if it had to be drunk in one evening?

First thing to do is to wait until I'm with you before you open it...

Now that the humour is out of the way, my more serious answer: gauge whatever clues you can from the bottle itself, the seal and the cork if you can make out any branding through the glass.

Assuming that all you can confirm is that it is old, open it approximately 2 hours before you intend to have your guests start drinking. The logic behind this is that if it suddenly starts to fall apart then you can reorganise the evening's schedule to start drinking earlier. If it seems to need longer to open up, then you can spend a little longer savouring a fine and mature vintage port.

Alex

[uncle tom]

Flawless green glass bottle with even colouration - probably 60's - 24hrs.

Flawless brown glass or green glass with slightly uneven colouration - probably 40's or 50's - morning of the day.

Imperfect glass with air bubbles, very uneven colour or slightly mottled appearance - probably pre-war - early afternoon of the day.

Some recent (post 1960) brown glass Oporto bottlings could become 'unknown' if they completely lost their labels, as a few do not have embossed foils - but in practice they tend to retain their labels rather better than the English bottlings, so I've yet to encounter a modern 'unknown'.

Tom

[jdaw1]

That’s tip-top advice from Uncle Tom, and well worth (being expanded for?) a thread of its own.

Though it omits the most important advice: use tongs.

And surely AHB has words to add?

[Alex Bridgeman]

And surely AHB has words to add?

Not really in addition to my earlier comments. Reading through Tom's advice, it seems that you essentially have to take a punt at what you think is the age of the bottle, and then decide whether you want an extended time (as outlined by Tom) or a less extended decanting time as suggested by me.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Agreed.

But a thread on bottle shapes, colours, and other identifying tricks would be most worthwhile.

[Alex Bridgeman]

That is an excellent idea. Over time, I may take some pictures of my older bottles and post these, together with a description of the glass used and any moulding marks.

But this will be a long term project.

Alex

[Overtired and emotional]

The January 2008 issue of Decanter, front page headline 'Indulge this Christmas' (sic), contains a distressing bit of advice on decanting vintage port.

The advice from Steve Kirkham, head sommelier at The Don in London (never heard of it) is great until the final paragraph on decanting times. 'Five hours or more (my emphasis) if the port is quite young and powerful, like a 1985.'

Who is he kidding? My experience, and, it seems, that of other Forum contributors, is that such a port needs at least 24 hours otherwise it tastes pretty awful. What drives his approach? It cannot just be subjective. Is it a restaurateur's approach where proper decanting can only be by arrangement? Is it a matter of impatience?

If someone offered me, as a novice, Dow 85 (as illustrated in Decanter's article), I think that I would wonder what the fuss was about and spend my money on something else. The world becomes a less patient place, and vintage port seems to be a casualty given the barbaric customs of drinking it young and premature decanting. O tempora! O mores!

[uncle tom]

Unfortunately, people who put advice like this into print have very often done no experimentation of thier own, and merely copy the errors of others...

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

...head sommelier at The Don in London (never heard of it)...

The Don is an upmarket restaurant in London, close by Canon Street station, built out of a conversion of the old Sandeman cellars and bottling plant. It is a very port sympathetic establishment and has a very impressive port list, going back (if I recall correctly) to 1927.

But don't plan to drink port there unless you are on an expense account!

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

I don't see anything wrong with his advice. It is perfectly sound to advise 5 or more hours for decanting a 1985 VP.

Remember, he is giving generic advice for a wide range of VP's and the article is not targeted to a Port specific group. There are many '85 VP's where 5 hours would be appropriate and some top VP's where "or more" would be appropriate.

Decanting is also a personnal issue. Some people like a longer decant to tame the tannins down a little more. Nothing wrong with this as everyones tastes are a little different. However, some VPs really due need a lot more decanting time, IMO.

The only way to know for sure, for YOUR palate, is to experiment with a particular VP. Whenever possible, I like to enjoy a VP over a couple days (or more) to see how it evolves and then mentally note when i thought it was at its best for MY palate. This takes time...but at least you get to drink lots of Port along the way

[jdaw1]

The Don: alas no wine list online.

[Conky]

I think Andy makes a fair point. So many experts used to say 2-3 hours, for nearly everything, which was absurd. Its to individual a thing, and as Overtired & Emotional says, some can be 24 hours plus.
The evidence of the Forums are clearly showing later rather than sooner, but at least Mr Kirkham talks in terms of 5 hours. I suspect he will feel he is being controversial, moving away from the 2-3 hour mantra. So I personally wouldn't disagreee with him, or censure him, but I would add the rider, 'and maybe even longer'.

Alan

[Alex Bridgeman]

I knew I'd mentioned it before. The Don wine list was posted in this thread here as one of the hotel price lists.

Remember, I did say it was pricey.

(I would post a link to the exact spot in the thread where the Don was mentioned, but I don't know how to.)

Alex

[jdaw1]

Like this.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Aha. Thank you - actually, I'm sure that you've shown me how to do this before. Perhaps its the Portsheimers kicking in.

Alex

[Overtired and emotional]

Is there anything quite like decanting times to start a scrummage?

[mosesbotbol]

Don't make the unknown bottle the only bottle of the evening. Serve the unknown with a bottle that can be drunk early or late to cater to the unknown bottle.

[jdaw1]

Don't make the unknown bottle the only bottle of the evening. Serve the unknown with a bottle that can be drunk early or late to cater to the unknown bottle.

One of the six is likely to be opened Thu 31st Jan 2008, after partaking of my father’s fine hospitality in the dry-red department. Present will probably be me, my father (one glass), my step-mother (a sip), and perhaps a friend of theirs, of similar age (again, a glass or two). Given what is likely to come before, two bottles would be deemed excessive. Alas.

But I will report back.

[jdaw1]

When opened at the Crusting Pipe on 30th January 2008, the cork was clearly branded Borges 1963. Not my taste at all: if any UK-located collectors of 1963s, or of Borges, require any of my few bottles, please let me know.

Decanted for 1 hour and drunk on 30/1/08.

Very pale orange with green on the rim. Marshmallow on the nose, accompanied by creamy coffee and caramel. A sweet entry with raisins and sultanas. Some coffee coming through the mid-palate with lemon juice and licorice. A warming aftertaste of modest duration that again fills the mouth and has a touch of bitter lemon about it. I would describe this as "fireside sipping port". 0/0 or 85/100.