Port brand abbreviations
- Alex Bridgeman
- Fonseca 1966
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
While on the letter P, can we grab Pe for Petre’s Port? We have tasting notes for 3 vintages in the index and I’m sure there are at least another couple of vintages about.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
No objection.Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑07:36 Sun 23 Apr 2023While on the letter P, can we grab Pe for Petre’s Port? We have tasting notes for 3 vintages in the index and I’m sure there are at least another couple of vintages about.
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Fine by me also. FYI, the VPID includes photos of 75, 80, 82 and 90 for Petre's brand, while the tasting note index has notes for 90, 94 and 95. So at least six vintages in total, more than enough to justify its own abbreviation.jdaw1 wrote: ↑20:12 Sun 23 Apr 2023No objection.Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑07:36 Sun 23 Apr 2023While on the letter P, can we grab Pe for Petre’s Port? We have tasting notes for 3 vintages in the index and I’m sure there are at least another couple of vintages about.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Works for me.Alex Bridgeman wrote:While on the letter P, can we grab Pe for Petre’s Port? We have tasting notes for 3 vintages in the index and I’m sure there are at least another couple of vintages about.
Glenn Elliott
Re: Port House abbreviations
Three years ago we discussed Mourão ≈ São Leonardo, but failed to conclude. Using Mr for Mourão was unpopular. So should it be SL = São Leonardo for both?jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:59 Wed 26 Aug 2020We seem to be veering toward SL. Should we ask? Please could whoever is best connected send this link, also asking that they peruse the first post of this thread?
One could dispute whether we are all full-strength pedants, rather than some of us being somewhat pedantic, but your message is well taken.
I say yes: SL for São Leonardo and for Mourão. Objections? (Objections must be accompanied by a better suggestion.)
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Quinta do Mourão has two brands: São Leonardo and Rio Bom. Miguel told me that they are the same wine but branded for different markets. I don't believe that they actually use "Quinta do Mourão" as a brand on any IVDP-approved labels because... and it's only a vague memory... I think I was told that they do not own the rights to that brand much like Quinta do Silval does not own the rights to "Silval" on a label (Noval does).
Which is a long way of saying that I do not think that QM or Mr is appropriate, but also that SL should potentially only serve for SL-branded bottles. The other bottles should theoretically be RB.
Note that the precedent set by Dalva and Presidential does not seem applicable to me, as Dalva is the actual name of the company and Presidential simply a rebrand for North America. In this case both are brands only.
(Kopke and Porto Rocha is no longer an appropriate example, because though PR was originally re-launched for the NA market it now seems to be available in other markets and is more accurately a sister brand to Kopke rather than a market-specific re-brand like Dalva and Presidential.)
So... Yes for SL. I remain open to the idea of RB being treated as a rebrand of SL, but currently think it should be its own abbreviation.
Which is a long way of saying that I do not think that QM or Mr is appropriate, but also that SL should potentially only serve for SL-branded bottles. The other bottles should theoretically be RB.
Note that the precedent set by Dalva and Presidential does not seem applicable to me, as Dalva is the actual name of the company and Presidential simply a rebrand for North America. In this case both are brands only.
(Kopke and Porto Rocha is no longer an appropriate example, because though PR was originally re-launched for the NA market it now seems to be available in other markets and is more accurately a sister brand to Kopke rather than a market-specific re-brand like Dalva and Presidential.)
So... Yes for SL. I remain open to the idea of RB being treated as a rebrand of SL, but currently think it should be its own abbreviation.
Glenn Elliott
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port House abbreviations
I have only seen San Leonardo branding on their ports, both tawnies/Colheitas/white and vintage; so yes agree, SL.jdaw1 wrote:Three years ago we discussed Mourão ≈ São Leonardo, but failed to conclude. Using Mr for Mourão was unpopular. So should it be SL = São Leonardo for both?jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:59 Wed 26 Aug 2020We seem to be veering toward SL. Should we ask? Please could whoever is best connected send this link, also asking that they peruse the first post of this thread?
One could dispute whether we are all full-strength pedants, rather than some of us being somewhat pedantic, but your message is well taken.
I say yes: SL for São Leonardo and for Mourão. Objections? (Objections must be accompanied by a better suggestion.)
Note that QdMourao has recently been sold, so we will have to wait and see what branding is used in future by the new owners.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Point taken. Though I was talking about Port, I wasn't aware that they used "Quinta do Mourão" as a brand on any table wine either.
Glenn Elliott
Re: Port brand abbreviations
has been added to the first post.SL = São Leonardo
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Dm = Dolamore?
jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:44 Fri 08 Sep 2023 First post has images of the current draft of the placemats.
Dm chosen as the abbreviation for Dolamore, as it was in October 2013 (second session, page 2, top). NB: Dl = Dalva; DM = Quinta Dona Matilde.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Ick. While allowed, having both DM and Dm seems ripe to cause confusion.jdaw1 wrote: ↑09:41 Sat 09 Sep 2023 Dm = Dolamore?jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:44 Fri 08 Sep 2023 First post has images of the current draft of the placemats.
Dm chosen as the abbreviation for Dolamore, as it was in October 2013 (second session, page 2, top). NB: Dl = Dalva; DM = Quinta Dona Matilde.
Perhaps Do for Dolomore?
Glenn Elliott
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
I'm less worried about Dm vs DM. We already have similarly VZ (Van Zeller) vs Vz (Quinta de Ventozelo), and I suspect there will be others.
Admittedly I've started pre-pending with"q" for the brands which are purely "Quinta de/da/do/dos/de la", which while not accepted here (for fairly judged brevity reasoning as much as anything else) does also help with these particular cases (Dm vs qDM, and VZ vs qVz).
I don't mind Do, but prefer Dm, for Dolamore.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Dolamore and Quinta Dona Matilde are of different eras, with, I suspect, no vintages in common.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
While I do still prefer Do, this reasoning suffices for me.
Glenn Elliott
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
No good question should go unanswered; to the best of my knowledge:
- Dm : Dolamore BOB vintage port from 1966..1982
- BrDM : Barros Quinta Dona Matilde (single quinta) vintage port from 1982..2002
- (q)DM : Quinta Dona Matilde vintage port from 2007..present
and just to throw an anomaly in, since this is vintage port we're talking about, the Sainsbury BOB 1985 vintage port says on the label that it is Quinta Dona Matilde (with Barros only mentioned in small writing).
Anyway, I think we're good.
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- Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Would be nice to make a decision on this for an upcoming tasting in.... 5 days. I personally think Mo is suitable. Julian, apologies for not following the first rule of making placemats.Glenn E. wrote: ↑01:33 Sat 26 Aug 2023 Quinta do Mourão has two brands: São Leonardo and Rio Bom. Miguel told me that they are the same wine but branded for different markets. I don't believe that they actually use "Quinta do Mourão" as a brand on any IVDP-approved labels because... and it's only a vague memory... I think I was told that they do not own the rights to that brand much like Quinta do Silval does not own the rights to "Silval" on a label (Noval does).
Which is a long way of saying that I do not think that QM or Mr is appropriate, but also that SL should potentially only serve for SL-branded bottles. The other bottles should theoretically be RB.
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
I believe we did, and you're looking for SL30yt for your San Leonardo 30 year tawny from Quinta do Mourao.akzy wrote: Would be nice to make a decision on this for an upcoming tasting in.... 5 days. I personally think Mo is suitable. Julian, apologies for not following the first rule of making placemats.
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- Warre’s Otima 10 year old Tawny
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Reading back this makes sense. Thanks Phil.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
First post says:
SL = São Leonardo
Re: Port brand abbreviations
For the Young Turks tasting, more abbreviations are needed. Please comment on the following.
Ph, for Quinta da Pacheca? Observe that already blocked are PA (Quinta da Pedra Alta), Pç (Poças), and Pe (Petre).
Gv, for Quinta da Gaivosa?
Tc, for Tecedeiras?
SO, for Quinta Seara D’Ordens?
Po for Quinta do Pessegueiro? Observe that already blocked are Pe (Petre), Ps (Passadouro), Pg (Pego), and Pi (Pintas).
Ph, for Quinta da Pacheca? Observe that already blocked are PA (Quinta da Pedra Alta), Pç (Poças), and Pe (Petre).
Gv, for Quinta da Gaivosa?
Tc, for Tecedeiras?
SO, for Quinta Seara D’Ordens?
Po for Quinta do Pessegueiro? Observe that already blocked are Pe (Petre), Ps (Passadouro), Pg (Pego), and Pi (Pintas).
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Referencing earlier discussion, we have previously only assigned permanent abbreviations for brands which have released vintage ports for ~3 vintages or more; do these meet that criteria? is that criteria still reasonable?jdaw1 wrote: ↑19:17 Wed 15 May 2024 For the Young Turks tasting, more abbreviations are needed. Please comment on the following.
Ph, for Quinta da Pacheca? Observe that already blocked are PA (Quinta da Pedra Alta), Pç (Poças), and Pe (Petre).
Gv, for Quinta da Gaivosa?
Tc, for Tecedeiras?
SO, for Quinta Seara D’Ordens?
Po for Quinta do Pessegueiro? Observe that already blocked are Pe (Petre), Ps (Passadouro), Pg (Pego), and Pi (Pintas).
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Very reasonable. And I had forgotten that.
Website has multiple tawnies, two LBVs, and zero VPs. ⟹︎ No permanent abbreviation. But anyway, I’m changing my mind for this temporary abbreviation to Pa.jdaw1 wrote: ↑19:17 Wed 15 May 2024Ph, for Quinta da Pacheca? Observe that already blocked are PA (Quinta da Pedra Alta), Pç (Poças), and Pe (Petre).
No website; internet knows of VPs 2015 and 2017. ⟹︎ No permanent abbreviation.
Website knows of Vintages 2016 and 2017 with other online evidence of a 2008, and LBVs 2014 and 2015. Also, unlike the table wine, it is “Quinta das Tecedeiras”. ⟹︎ Yes, this is a question. Tc?
Website has VPs from every year 2013–2021. ⟹︎ Yes, this is a question. SO?
Website has VPs 2014, ’16, ’17, ’18. ⟹︎ Yes, this is a question. Po?jdaw1 wrote: ↑19:17 Wed 15 May 2024Po for Quinta do Pessegueiro? Observe that already blocked are Pe (Petre), Ps (Passadouro), Pg (Pego), and Pi (Pintas).