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Corrected following Derek's comments in the "End May Offline" thread

On Feb 2 there was a 1963 horizontal
On Jan 28 there was a 1966 horizontal
On Feb 14 there was a 1970 horizontal
On Mar 29 there is planned a 1977 horizontal
In January there was a 1985 horizontal

Therefore suggested themes carried forward for possible future use are:
1) Silver is our favourite colour
2) Singles night - SQVP
3) 1955, 1960, 1975(?), 1980, 1983
4) 1966 vs 1970 that was suggested elsewhere
4a) 1991 vs 1992 - who got it right?
5) Cockburn - I like the idea of having at least one major exploration of a shipper each year. Last year it was the F-plan, this year it could be T-Time, D-Day, the G-Men, A Beach Party (Sandeman). Under-represented shippers would be particularly interesting.
6) 1908 - As romantic an idea as it would be to have a 1908 horizontal this year, it doesn't look as though there are enough bottles in people's cellars to make it work. A mini-horizontal might work as part of another event.
7) The Unknown Shipper and his Peculiar Friends - this theme was a great success for the Christmas Offline (in my opinion, at least) and was a great excuse to open some bottles of unknown port that might otherwise sit in the cellar waiting for the right moment.
8) A Ruby Port taste off
9) A Buyer's Own Brand offline - BOB's Your Uncle

Alex

I have a reasonable collection of 1960's and 1975's waiting for a Horizontal from those vinatges.

I would suggest that the Unknown Shipper and his Peculiar Friends should become a constant for the Xmas Offline.

A Graham's Vertical has also been suggested and recieved some interest so perhaps we could add this to the list.

Derek

I am drawn to another version of the F Plan.

D-Day? Dows
T Time? Taylors
G Men? Grahams

Well, you get the gist.

For those who rarely drink non-VP it might also be fun to have an event that incorporates the entire range of ports from one or more shippers. We would obviously have to include a hefty line-up of VP's but could also have the full range of aged tawnys, premium ruby's, LBV's etc to allow us to evaluate the entire house style. For instance:

The T-Time Offline:

• Taylor's Vintage Port 1963, 1966, 1970
• Taylor's Quinta do Vargellas Vintage Port 1987
• Taylor's Qunita de Terra Fieta Vintage Port 19??
• Taylor's Special Quninta Vintage Port 1950
• Taylor's 10, 20, 30 and 40 Year Old Tawny
• Taylor's LBV
• Taylor's First Estate

Perhaps a good one for summer in a garden not far from Manchester?

Derek

Derek wrote:Perhaps a good one for summer in a garden not far from Manchester?

That's a definite maybe

To learn from the last one, the first hour should be indoors, which would need a little organising, for the benefit of the nose, and then maybe retiring to the patio for a long session of waffle?

It would be interesting if we could get Simon and John to attend, maybe Sideways fom the Staffs area could be persuaded? Am I missing anyone Northern-ish?

Alan

Conky wrote: It would be interesting if we could get Simon and John to attend, maybe Sideways fom the Staffs area could be persuaded? Am I missing anyone Northern-ish?

On the assumption that KillerB and I are considered to have sufficient quantities of northern blood I think the only Northern-ish person you are missing from your list is AHB. This is based on his recent offer to travel farther north than the M4 corridor to attend an Offline. I assume he intends moving to the North of England to spend his retirement. Perhaps even as far as Northhampton

What do you think of the T-Time at Conky's theme?

Derek

However it will be less easy than before for LadyR and me to attend in the coming years, we will certainly try to attend as many offlines as possible.

Of course it wouldn't only be open to Northerners, but it would add to the occasion. A Taylor theme, and a Northern slant. Well worth exploring.

We could visit that Camra Pub, for a couple. Grubby, but real ale to die for.

Conky wrote:a Northern slant.

You're not going to post that bloody picture again, are you?

Derek

Derek T. wrote:

Conky wrote:a Northern slant.

You're not going to post that bloody picture again, are you?
Derek

Which one of the THREE are you refering to???

But of course not.

(in an attempt to draw the conversation away from sleeping at offline stories)

I see they have Deuchars IPA on tap - fabulous - although I am somewhat concerned on Jdaw's behalf at the lack of use of the posessive

Derek

Derek T. wrote:

Conky wrote: It would be interesting if we could get Simon and John to attend, maybe Sideways fom the Staffs area could be persuaded? Am I missing anyone Northern-ish?

On the assumption that KillerB and I are considered to have sufficient quantities of northern blood I think the only Northern-ish person you are missing from your list is AHB. This is based on his recent offer to travel farther north than the M4 corridor to attend an Offline. I assume he intends moving to the North of England to spend his retirement. Perhaps even as far as Northhampton

What do you think of the T-Time at Conky's theme?

Derek

In principle, I am interested in drinking port any time, any place, anywhere. Whether I can actually be there will depend on other commitments that I might have on the selected date.

There are parts of the north that I have heard of and I have or am willing to visit. Old Trafford (home to LCCC, not MUFC) and Headingly are two examples. However, these are at most only 5 day visits. Retirement will be to somewhere more appropriately northerly, such as Padstow or Rock rather than more southerly choices such as Penzance or Falmouth.

Derek T. wrote:For those who rarely drink non-VP it might also be fun to have an event that incorporates the entire range of ports from one or more shippers.

I do this a lot with my Sake tastings; average to amazing from the same brewer/house. I think these are great ways to educate folks who are new to port, and to remind each of us why we drink the fancy stuff.

Also, I'd really like to do some comparisons of LBV and VP from the same year and house. I've got a Taylor LBV94 which I'd be happy to bring (along with a VP, of course) the next time Taylor VP94 is in a NY offline. This is more about curiosity than anything else, and there's no rush (who'd want to rush a TFG VP94?)

SushiNorth wrote:

Derek T. wrote:For those who rarely drink non-VP it might also be fun to have an event that incorporates the entire range of ports from one or more shippers.

I do this a lot with my Sake tastings; average to amazing from the same brewer/house. I think these are great ways to educate folks who are new to port, and to remind each of us why we drink the fancy stuff.

Also, I'd really like to do some comparisons of LBV and VP from the same year and house. I've got a Taylor LBV94 which I'd be happy to bring (along with a VP, of course) the next time Taylor VP94 is in a NY offline. This is more about curiosity than anything else, and there's no rush (who'd want to rush a TFG VP94?)

speaking of sake, going to sakagura this thursday =)

that would be interesting an LBV versus the vintage. I've wondered an lbv 94 bottled in 2000 would it be more similar to the vp 94 or a vp 2000

g-man wrote:speaking of sake, going to sakagura this thursday =)

Ah, my home away from home Btw, if you are into sake/japanese and would like suggestions (or to come along on one of my little gatherings) just let me know. Last one was this past friday and turned out great (@Uminoie)

g-man wrote:that would be interesting an LBV versus the vintage. I've wondered an lbv 94 bottled in 2000 would it be more similar to the vp 94 or a vp 2000

or a single year 94 tawny bottled in 2000... but i thought for the most part LBVs only stay in the casks an extra year or two, but then get filtered before bottling.

Here are some more suggestions for off-lines in 2008:

• 1960 Horizontal - because I've never had a 1960 VP
• 1975 Horizontal - if we can get Stevie and Ronnie to attend as they are 1975 babies
• 1991 v 1992 - who made the right choice?
• Graham's v Fonseca parallel vertical
• Quinta do Noval Nacional Vertical
• Back to the 90's - a 4 shipper 91/92, 94 & 97 Parazontal
• Vargellas v Malvedos

Derek

The 1975 horizontal sounds like a good plan, but if we do such a thing we'd better make it a two day event: day 1 1975, day two: the real good stuff.

The idea of Vargellas vs Malvedos makes me think that it might even be more fun to try opposing vineyards, examples:
- Cruzeiro vs. Cavadinha (or Terra Feita)
- Vargellas vs. Canais
- Vesuvio vs. Senhora da Ribeira

RonnieRoots wrote:Cruzeiro vs. Cavadinha (or Terra Feita)

What about Terra Feita v Noval Nacional - or is that unfair

I like the idea, Ronnie, and the 1975 as part of a larger event is a good call. Perhaps a 1975 v 1985 double horizontal?

Derek

Perhaps a 1975 v 1985 double horizontal?

LadyR is born in 1977. It would be disrespectful not to honour her with a theme.

RonnieRoots wrote:

Perhaps a 1975 v 1985 double horizontal?

LadyR is born in 1977. It would be disrespectful not to honour her with a theme.

Very true.

We shall toast Lady R at the forthcoming New York 1977 Horizontal.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=11999#11999]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:

In an enclosure to an email Tom Cave of BBR wrote:Berrys' Own Selection Vintage Ports

Supplied by:

1960 Rebello Valente
1963 Taylor Fladgate
1966 Warre
1970 Warre
1975 Gould Campbell
1977 Quarles Harris
1980 Warre
1983 Warre
1985 shipped by Smith Woodhouse
1991 bottled by Smith Woodhouse
1994 produced & bottled by Smith Woodhouse
1997 produced & bottled by Warre
2000 produced by Smith Woodhouse
2003 produced by Quinta de la Rosa

THC/ 2008

It isn’t clear whether there is a real difference between “supplied by†, “shipped by†, “bottled by†, and “produced by†, or just writerly variation. Except that ≤1970 BBR might have done their own bottling.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=12074#12074]Here[/url] AHB wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=12002#12002]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:

In an email to Tom Cave, jdaw1 wrote:On that bulletin board a follow-up question has been asked. Are Berrys' Selections a relabelling of the original blender's wine, or are they -- in some way -- different wines?

Again, thank you for your help with this historical digging.

Tom Cave wrote:They wouldn't be ''relabellings'' necessarily - each vintage we taste a range from different suppliers and select a wine that is most suitable to carry the Berrys' label.

As yet no reply sent. Unless there’s anything else, I’ll just send thanks.

Nothing else from me. Interestingly, I've been told in the past by Berry's that the wine in their bottles is exactly the same blend as made by the shipper - that you get the same port in a bottle of Berry 1983 as you do in a Warre 1983, for example. While this doesn't conflict with Tom's response, I'm not sure it's entirely consistent either.

Perhaps a theme to carry forward to a future tasting...

Alex, unusually for him, seems to have forgotten that at the 1966 horizontal we had both Warre and Berry Brothers’ Own Selection. What other BBOSs do we own between us for Alex’s “theme to carry forward to a future tasting†? (Me: no more.)

My plan, and its now full steam ahead, is to head over to the UK after the Harvest Trip. Should be early October. Just wanted to give you guys a heads up that this Yank is coming over to drink all your VP's I'd love to meet up with as many of you as possible....as the time gets closer we'll figure out the details.

ADV wrote:as the time gets closer we'll figure out the details.

It would probably help maximise attendance if the date were chosen soon. What dates are you in the UK?

Andy

Don't forget that there is already an offline organised in London for October 8 (see summary here), to coincide with Roy coming through the UK after the harvest tour. Assuming that fits in with your plans, you are hereby formally invited!

Once you give us your first and last dates in the UK and let us know any other plans you have, let us know and we will organise a few things for you.

Alex

jdaw1 wrote:

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=11999#11999]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:

In an enclosure to an email Tom Cave of BBR wrote:Berrys' Own Selection Vintage Ports

Supplied by:

1960 Rebello Valente
1963 Taylor Fladgate
1966 Warre
1970 Warre
1975 Gould Campbell
1977 Quarles Harris
1980 Warre
1983 Warre
1985 shipped by Smith Woodhouse
1991 bottled by Smith Woodhouse
1994 produced & bottled by Smith Woodhouse
1997 produced & bottled by Warre
2000 produced by Smith Woodhouse
2003 produced by Quinta de la Rosa

THC/ 2008

It isn’t clear whether there is a real difference between “supplied by†, “shipped by†, “bottled by†, and “produced by†, or just writerly variation. Except that ≤1970 BBR might have done their own bottling.

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=12074#12074]Here[/url] AHB wrote:

jdaw1 wrote:

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=12002#12002]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:

In an email to Tom Cave, jdaw1 wrote:On that bulletin board a follow-up question has been asked. Are Berrys' Selections a relabelling of the original blender's wine, or are they -- in some way -- different wines?

Again, thank you for your help with this historical digging.

Tom Cave wrote:They wouldn't be ''relabellings'' necessarily - each vintage we taste a range from different suppliers and select a wine that is most suitable to carry the Berrys' label.

As yet no reply sent. Unless there’s anything else, I’ll just send thanks.

Nothing else from me. Interestingly, I've been told in the past by Berry's that the wine in their bottles is exactly the same blend as made by the shipper - that you get the same port in a bottle of Berry 1983 as you do in a Warre 1983, for example. While this doesn't conflict with Tom's response, I'm not sure it's entirely consistent either.

Perhaps a theme to carry forward to a future tasting...

Alex, unusually for him, seems to have forgotten that at the 1966 horizontal we had both Warre and Berry Brothers’ Own Selection. What other BBOSs do we own between us for Alex’s “theme to carry forward to a future tasting†? (Me: no more.)

I hadn't forgotten that we had those side-by-side in January. I've also had the '83s side-by-side and the '70 and '97s, although those weren't side-by-side.

In each case the wines were not the same, but I have not yet been convinced whether the differences were because the wines in the bottles was different when it was put in or because the wines in the bottles has been treated and has matured differently.

And although a side-by-side tasting won't answer this question, it would be fun.

I have BBR own label wines from '83 and '97 (in a half) - but won't have them for long as I tend to drink them fairly soon after getting them.

Alex

AHB wrote:Andy

Don't forget that there is already an offline organised in London for October 8 (see summary here), to coincide with Roy coming through the UK after the harvest tour. Assuming that fits in with your plans, you are hereby formally invited!

Once you give us your first and last dates in the UK and let us know any other plans you have, let us know and we will organise a few things for you.

Alex

i am planning on being there after the harvest tour also, so the 8th of October is looking good for me so far.

I have nothing from 1908, so if that is the theme, I'll have to start looking for a bottle.

My only real plans are to meet/hang out with all of you and drink till I emulate Derek

Ok Ok, since i've never been to the UK, I will do a little sightseeing during the day...but first priority is hanging with all my Port friends. I am really looking forward to meeting those I haven't met yet (and of course seeing of you again too).

As soon as I firm up my dates in the near future you guys will be the first to know.

ADV wrote: My only real plans are to meet/hang out with all of you and drink till I emulate Derek

Andy, give up now - you've no chance

But I will have a week of training before hand. I think 200+ ports will help me get my game face on

Andy,

Great to hear your coming over. If your only going to be London based, I'll try an make the effort and raid the piggybank again! Hope Roy's coming too. Now if you can visit any of our other fine cities which aren't based down South....I'll definitely be there, and throw in a British Policemans Hat for you to take back to the states! (Yes Alex, that is bribery)

Alan

(I would of course supply the hat anyway, but a mans gotta try...)

Just point me in the right direction Alan. I'm sure its only a train ride away

I've just updated the first post in this thread to try and capture some of the recent ideas that have been thrown around.