Page 2 of 3
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 20:50 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by LGTrotter
Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 20:57 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:What Daniel described strikes at the root of the problem. I am quite certain that the great unwashed element in the Yes camp will believe that being an in independent Scot means not having to be British.
I know exactly what you mean but I think there's a big difference between 'Britain' and 'British Isles'. One has always been the name of the island you are on. The other is arguably, at least, a term describing a power relationship developed over hundreds of years and only relatively recently being re-thought. If the Scots want to pretend that Scotland is not on an island called Britain, good luck to them.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:20 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
We agree entirely - I just think there are a couple of million people with their faces painted blue who haven't quite realised that reality yet.
For the record, I am firmly of the view that the archipelago known as The British Isles includes a very large emerald coloured island, but I can see why that geographic reality is politically unacceptable to the unenlightened.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:28 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
LGTrotter wrote:Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
Don't be fooled by the "we hate the Tories" mob. In my youth the Salmonites were known as "The Scottish Tories". Regardless of whether they are voting yes or no there will remain a deep distrust of politicians whether they are in Holyrood or Westminster or Brussels.
My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.
Betfair paid out on No votes today.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:31 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Paid out? How?
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:32 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
If you placed a bet with Betfair on a no vote they have paid out the winnings. Google it.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:35 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Just did. Blimey.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:36 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by flash_uk
DRT wrote:My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.
I tend to agree. Last night I was thinking 58:42. Sadly, even if No carries the day, I suspect we are in for months and years of tedious devolution debates, which in the end (over say 10-15 years) might prove to be worse than a straight Yes.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:37 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
Indeed.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:38 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
My last post directed at Daniel.
It will only be drawn out if it is close. Which is why it needs not to be.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:40 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by AW77
If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:42 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:44 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by flash_uk
djewesbury wrote:AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.
Yes indeed. There are many Welsh, Scots and N Irish who shun the idea that they are British. And many also who rejoice that they are British.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:46 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by flash_uk
I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:49 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
"British" was in use long before England existed as a single state. The problem you allude to is actually the reverse in that "Britains" have for two centuries or more been commonly known as "English" throughout the rest of the world. That's the bit that causes the hackles to rise on the back of the Celtic necks.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:50 Wed 17 Sep 2014
by DRT
flash_uk wrote:I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this
I elect Wolfgang as my proxy.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 17:48 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!
Sensible people that I have spoken to today are now seriously worried that the nationalistic frenzy is pushing this in the wrong direction.
Surely common sense will prevail!!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 18:26 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by jdaw1
DRT wrote:DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!
That should be reported to the police, pronto.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 18:40 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 19:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by Alex Bridgeman
Are there UN observers and independent monitors watching the vote and count?
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 20:11 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:11 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
Is it too late for placemats?
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich 12 Year Old
Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:12 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:13 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich 12 Year Old
Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:14 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:14 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
(And what a nice selection, if I may say so.)
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:17 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by PhilW
How's anybody's whisky? Given the John-Snow-equivalent guy who has just been on the beeb, trying to excite us with graphics (but no swingometer, yet), I started the Balvenie (Caribbean cask) - an unusual follow-on to the glass of D83 I had earlier - which is very tasty, and identical to every other bottle of Balvenie Caribbean cask I've had before (only 2 or 3, admittedly, but no noticeable bottle variation).
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:21 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by benread
I'm drinking 2005 Noval LBV. Is that wrong?
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:29 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by Glenn E.
I have no scotch in my house. Will Midleton Very Rare 2013 do, or would that cause an international incident?
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:31 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
How's that for quick? Shows what you can do with an amazing piece of software and a decent template.
Option-click to download the PDF, Derek. Obviously your hotel will print this for you in the Business Suite!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:33 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
benread wrote:I'm drinking 2005 Noval LBV. Is that wrong?
How COULD that be wrong? It's got the word NO in the name.
Glenn E. wrote:I have no scotch in my house. Will Midleton Very Rare 2013 do, or would that cause an international incident?
As I was saying to Ben, drink it if you've got it.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:39 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by LGTrotter
The Croft's alright, I've started a tasting note. With pictures, done incompetently, but pictures nonetheless.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:55 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
I think Huw Edwards looks thirsty.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:56 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Ready for the results
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:57 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
Our posts crossed. Please re-post in the review thread.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 21:58 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by benread
I think you may be thirsty before the result is known!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:01 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Tick, tick, tick…
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:02 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
DRT wrote:djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Tick, tick, tick…
Er, upthread??
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:03 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Yes I know, the centre heading in Derek's placemat is wrong. I spotted that. But we need to get a move on.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:08 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
djewesbury wrote:DRT wrote:djewesbury wrote:It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
Tick, tick, tick…
Er, upthread??
Apologies, and thanks.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:08 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
My pleasure!
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:15 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by LGTrotter
Terrific set of vinyl Daniel. Can't help noticing Nigella's jug in the background.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:16 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
LGTrotter wrote:Terrific set of vinyl Daniel. Can't help noticing Nigella's jug in the background.
So observant. It is Nigella's jug. In, I think, a rather Marie Antoinette sense. And that's just a small amount of the vinyl…
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:17 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by PhilW
DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
Damn; I saw the same pack in Sainsbury's at the weekend, and ignored it in favour of 70cl of Carribean cask, but they would havebeen perfect for tonight. Too much port and whisky in me to go get some now! Will be interested to see how the 17yr doublewood comes out, haven't seen that before.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:23 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:27 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by DRT
BBC reported 54% No from an unofficial poll (i.e. made up by a journo in Manchester)
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:30 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by LGTrotter
djewesbury wrote:Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.
Adam Boulton is the epitome of a man carved from a boiled ham.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:30 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
LGTrotter wrote:djewesbury wrote:Sky have called it for No, apparently, in their usual measured and cautious way.
Adam Boulton is the epitome of a man carved from a boiled ham.
I say 'apparently' because I would never watch the big ugly eejit myself.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Posted: 22:34 Thu 18 Sep 2014
by djewesbury
Peter Kellner says 54% No then. It's true. Don't bother counting all those tedious votes.