Wood Aged. Aged in Wood.

[Conky]

I wouldn't have known a great difference in Wood Aged and Aged in Wood, but there is.

To those who dont know, the IVDP put out a Directive last year, in response to an EU Directive, to clarify certain practices. Apparently, for many years, Port had been sold as being aged in wood, suggesting years of resting in Oak barrels. Unfortunately, what was really happening was the juice was being kept in commercial stainless steel containers, with scraps of oak added.
The folk who were really keeping it in Oak barrels, and the slightly misguided public, were not happy bunnies. Hence the directive. Nowadays, Wood Aged refers to the scraps. Aged in Wood refers to the barrels. Circular No 03/2007 of the IVDP refers.

Was that common knowledge, or are you as surprised as me? As a lot of my love for Port comes from the heritage and tradition, as well as the taste, it is a fact I'm glad I'm now aware of, and I will start to notice the labelling.

Alan.

[SimonSaysDrink]

Had no friggin' idea. I knew of the wood-chip practice, but never in my life would have associated it with the Port industry. Granted, some larger-scale co-ops probably have to find some way of maxing margins, but I'd be curious to know if some of the more qualitatively renowned estates are engaging in this manipulation.

Is it possible to even make, say, a tawny withOUT aging it in wood? Perhaps that's the most ignorant question of the year, but honestly, I don't see how one would.

Wild.

[DRT]

I have heard of this in relation to table wines but got port.

However, I have seen lots of stainless steel tanks full of port so am not too surprised. But I would be horrified if it turns out the big boys are doing this!

Derek

[uncle tom]

Is it possible to even make, say, a tawny withOUT aging it in wood? Perhaps that's the most ignorant question of the year, but honestly, I don't see how one would.

The great bulk of 'basic' tawnies - i.e. those that have no indication of age - have no wood aging at all, and obtain their tawny colour through the blending of white and ruby ports.

I believe the French are fond of cheap tawny, and if that's what keeps them happy at a price they are willing to pay, then why worry!

Tom

[mosesbotbol]

Port has gone the way of Budweiser with "beachwood aging", rather wood chips floating around in a huge vat?

It makes sense, but I really never thought about it much... Labels should be true and acurate, so I am glad they are enforcing this directive.

[SimonSaysDrink]

UT, Moses--couldn't agree more on both accounts. Truth in labeling, consistently cheap quality for the French. I envision this as the start of a new era in peaceful, coexistential blandness. But I really do think it's good the IVDP has stepped out at a rather early (no?) juncture and said, 'Hey, there is a distinction here, and perhaps a commensurate price adjustment reflecting that distinction.'

Now, to the preponderance of steel tanks in many quintas, lodges, etc., I pose another ignorant question. When reading a TN on various varietal lots of Vesuvio, I got the distinct impression that a blending of already fortified single varietals would at a later time be blended to form one unified and glorious VP. If this were true and more or less standard practice, then wouldn't there be, in those cases, a need to have steel tanks for the final blend and bottling? Point being, if one were to see a long wall of steel tanks at some quinta, it could very well be for that reason and not necessarily for some Budweiser methods of tawny stylizing. Do we know of any rather renowned names or partnerships who are engaged in the wood-chip practice?

[Alex Bridgeman]

I had no idea that some port producers were using the wood chips in their port production and confess that I am actually very surprised that they do so. My very closed mind had thought that the oak used in port was more or less neutral and did not impart flavour to the wine inside but allowed in a little air in a semi-controlled manner, thus producing the oxidative tawny flavours or softening the harsher grapey flavours as required by the producer.

I wonder which ports are produced using wood aging - I shall browse through labels in the shops I visit with a new interest now.

I would have thought that at least theoretically, it was possible to produce tawny style port without the use of a barrel - all you need is controlled exposure to oxygen and a handful of the right size wood chips. Just think of the vintage ports that you've drunk which had loose corks that let the air in.

Alex

[Overtired and emotional]

This is something of a shock horror revelation.

I suspect that Uncle Tom has hit upon the culprit in looking to the cheap 'n nasty continental market. Virtual paint stripper is sold in France as port; I doubt whether port which has had oak chips floating in the vats even hits the shelves here, or at least I hope not.

[jdaw1]

News to me.

Truth in labeling, consistently cheap quality for the French.

Hilarious, and not wrong.

[DRT]

Now, to the preponderance of steel tanks in many quintas, lodges, etc., I pose another ignorant question. When reading a TN on various varietal lots of Vesuvio, I got the distinct impression that a blending of already fortified single varietals would at a later time be blended to form one unified and glorious VP. If this were true and more or less standard practice, then wouldn't there be, in those cases, a need to have steel tanks for the final blend and bottling? Point being, if one were to see a long wall of steel tanks at some quinta, it could very well be for that reason and not necessarily for some Budweiser methods of tawny stylizing.

Unless I was very much mistaken I think lots of the smaller producers who do not own lodges in VNG are holding their VP and LBV in steel tanks rather than oak Tonnels or Pipes. I am sure I also seen port being pumped into steel tanks at the Croft lodge in VNG. I am not suggesting that Croft use the wood chips thing and these may well have been the tanks used for belnding as Simon has suggested.

One thing I am sure of is that not all port is aged in wood. It is likely that some port doesn't see wood at all until it hits the cork when layed down in a bottle

Derek

[SimonSaysDrink]

This whole thing smacks of mystery and intrigue. I suppose we'll just have to arrange a Portugal TPF Getaway and explore-investigate, rather-these mysteries in person.

The following link, in particular the last three paragraphs, cleared up a lot of my questions regarding the application of steel in Port production. I don't think this is the way it's done everywhere, but it appears to be the way it's done at one Symington estate.

[Axel P]

Totally new to me. Looks like the guys from controlling are finally taking over, eh?

thanks for the advice.

Axel

[Conky]

I almost wish I hadn't heard the wood scraps story and then found that directive to confirm it. I dont like thinking of chemical plants, steel vats, mechanical crushing, wood scraps.

Oh well...still tastes nice.

Alan

[uncle tom]

The producers got a rude awakening in the mid eighties, when a significant quantity of wine went bad on account of poor sterilization.

While I have some concerns over the widespread use of stainless steel (or 'Inox' as it is known locally) - I prefer it to concrete and GRP, which have also been used..

Tom

[SimonSaysDrink]

I'm riding the proverbial fence on all this really, siding with Conky and UT concurrently: sad that such practices are employed-God forbid, widespread; heartened at the thought of more sterile winemaking. If a shipper has a particular style, let it also be considered a clean one. That's admirable. But if it comes at the cost of romance entirely (according to varying sources, the Symington clan retaining anywhere from 5-10% 'traditional' vinification), then I'm wavin' the BS flag at the modernists. You can't tell me the classics of the 60s and 70s weren't sterilely made. I can imagine VA and other issues with some of these wines, but can't hang my hat completely on the notion that, had Inox been introduced before that time, little if any flaws would have existed. Attention-to-detail comes at no cost, the insistence thereon costing little more. I see at this point no harm in the use of Inox, if administered tastefully and only as a necessary medium for clean fortification and sterile racking. Outside of those uses, I'd have to hear some sound arguments from folks far more attuned to the nuances of Port production than I. Wood chips and Port-tawny or otherwise-let the consumer inform himself and buy at will. Should he or she have questions or concerns regarding the quality of the juice itself, let him or her visit this great forum and investigate the matter. Seems fair enough.

[SimonSaysDrink]

...that said, for those folks further up river, whose elevage and assemblage takes place in-house without shipping, I can understand and wholly accept the practice of maturing Port in Inox. That's one of the beauties of steel: temperature control. I can imagine how hot it must get around Pinhao and the rest of CC/DS. If that's the sacrifice they make to ensure quality without any further adulterations or manipulations, then they're good in my four-chapter book.

Derek-thanks for pointing out this scenario. Completely slipped my mind.

[DRT]

I finally got hold of my books tonight and have found the following in Richard Mayson's Port and the Douro...

{in VNG} Most of the wine ages in wooden vats and casks ranging in capacity from...100,000 litres {balseiros}...to...600 litres {pipes}...Wines destined for bottling after two or three years - premium ruby, LBV and vintage will be aged partly in balseiros and sometimes in stainless steel to preserve the primary characteristics of the fruit.

Lesser ports (white, ruby and inexpensive tawny*) are generally stored in tanks made from stainless steel or cement.

These are wines that are aged for varying periods in bulk (either in wood and/or stainless steel or cement vats) and only bottled when they are judged ready to drink.

Derek

* I suspect this is where the woodchips go

[Conky]

Derek,

You would expect that Mayson knows his stuff, but to be fair he might not on this point.
If you read your third excerpt, and just use the 'or' alternative, that could be wood chips as well. He may well, like we did, listened to that bland sort of statement and assumed there was a wooden container in there somewhere.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

Given the reaction of everyone here to this revalation it is entirely possible that Mayson decided not to explicitly mention this less than traditional process in his book.

I think the fact that the paragraph title is Wood-matured Ports and the subsequent quote implies that some of these wines will be aged entirely in stainless steel vats tells us all we need to know - i.e. if the wood isn't the vat then it must be in the vat, presumably in the form of oak chips.

I suppose we will never actually know what Mayson knew when he wrote this unless we can find a way of getting him to an off-line

Derek

[Conky]

There's a thought. We may have a place free at the Route 66 Do. Is it worth a late invite? Does anyone know his Email?

[uncle tom]

I suppose we will never actually know what Mayson knew when he wrote this unless we can find a way of getting him to an off-line

I think Roy has his email address - It would be nice to make his aquaintance at some point - his active participation on the port forums would be even nicer!

Tom

[DRT]

There's a thought. We may have a place free at the Route 66 Do. Is it worth a late invite? Does anyone know his Email?

Alan,

I have no problem inviting Richard Mayson to an offline but I think we should do it properly and not just invite him at the last minute. Tom has expressed an interest in doing this a few times before and I think it would be only fair to do so when Tom has a chance of attending.

Perhaps the Cockburn Vertical would be a good opportunity?

Derek