2007 - will it be a Vintage year?

[Axel P]

Ive been to Porto and the douro three times in 2007 and heard the impression from the winemakers rather than the marketing-branch, that 07 is "a good wine", "as good as 2006" or "had rather good growing conditions".

I guess we are all in the wine business long enough to know that these expressions do not promote a wine to a top level. It must be tempting to be able to raise prices and declare a VP just by generally talking it nice, but I did not hear any superlatives when talking to people in Portugal.

My advice: hands off unless you have tried it yourself and are experienced enough to jugde if you get what you are looking for.

Axel

[jdaw1]

Thank you. Solid advice.

[Roy Hersh]

My view, and I believe I am not alone, is that 1966 was actually a better year than 1963 but it suffered from living in the shadow of a huge production of a classic vintage.

The acid test is to find a way of buying or tasting a 63 v 66 anything and then try to explain why the 63 is almost twice the price

Derek, I agree 100%. When you look at the quantity of 1966s which are still drinking very well today, that number of Vintage Ports certainly exceeds the quantity of fine 1963s that remain.

But this thread has diverted more often than not, from whether or not 2007 will be a generally declared vintage. Like Andy and Sean who were on this year's trip ... we heard "superlatives" over and over from winemakers/growers during visits in Gaia and the Douro when it came to 2007. They could all be wrong.

From tasting the grapes on triage tables, on vines, in lagares and speaking to over a dozen key players in the trade on this very topic (some even after our visit) there is a lot of bullish fervor re: the grape quality seen in 2007. Again, they could be all wrong.

But I'd certainly respect their take on the grape quality in 2007, before anyone postulating with little more than broad generalizations of online weather reports to go by.

[DRT]

Perhaps this thread should be locked and marked:

Open on St George's Day 2009

[Andy Velebil]

But the big question is....what Port should we open on St. George's Day 2009

[uncle tom]

Although my main ambition during my recent visit to the Douro and VNG was to get a better take on the wines the Portuguese like to drink, I also got into several conversations regarding the '07 vintage, talking (as is my preference) to the troops rather than the generals.

I only encountered one person who was genuinely enthusiastic about a declaration, and had a long conversation with a restauranteur on the waterfront in Gaia, who clearly knew the industry extremely well, and was adamant that a declaration was not merited.

The one person who WAS enthusiastic was an oenologist working for one of the major shippers. He went into more detail than his lords and masters would probably have liked, so I shall keep his identity secret.

He explained that last year, two of the major vine varieties had an an excellent vintage, while the others were much less impressive. The two top performers, he explained, can be blended to produce a wine "of great structure and perfume"

The varieties in question are Touriga Franca and Tinta Barroca.

Well, his enthusiasm was very apparent - perhaps my doubts were misplaced...

I got out my copy of Mayson to read up on these two vines.

For most purposes, these are sound vines and very widely planted, but about Touriga Franca he notes:

"It tends to mature fairly rapidly, losing colour and taking on a dusty, earthy character with age"

and about Tinta Barroca:

"The wines lose a considerable amount of colour after about fifteen years in bottle"

Early loss of colour? Earthy character? - sounds like a '75...

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

Very, very interesting.

Those '75s are patchy, but there are some good ones in the mix. The trick is to get the good ones at a price that matches their quality.

[jdaw1]

Thank you Tom. 2007 ≈ 1975 eh? If they declare, I shan’t buy.

[Axel P]

Frederic:

Vesuvio - yeap
Niepoort - do not know, very many TNs, but very far apart.
Vale Meao did not declare a VP 2005
Senhora da Ribeira is a very good wine

More about the 2005s soon.

Tom:

Longelivity of 91s. I always had the impression that the 91s are pretty far developed already. Especially compared to the 85s, the 92s and the 94s.

Axel

[Simon Lisle]

That was quite interesting Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

Wouldn't it be interesting to collect together information on the grape varieties that ripened well and which were used in the final blends in past years. It might reveal some interesting predictions for expected future development. Imagine if we discovered that 1950, 1958, 1960, 1975, 1982 were all years in which there was a relatively small proportion of fully ripe Touriga Nacional.

And on the other hand we discover that in 1945, 1955, 1966, 1970 there was a large amount of fully ripe Nacional that went into the final blends. Now wouldn't that be interesting.

Stage 4 of Project Derek perhaps...

[DRT]

Wouldn't it be interesting to collect together information on the grape varieties that ripened well and which were used in the final blends in past years. It might reveal some interesting predictions for expected future development. Imagine if we discovered that 1950, 1958, 1960, 1975, 1982 were all years in which there was a relatively small proportion of fully ripe Touriga Nacional.

And on the other hand we discover that in 1945, 1955, 1966, 1970 there was a large amount of fully ripe Nacional that went into the final blends. Now wouldn't that be interesting.

Stage 4 of Project Derek perhaps...

Stop it. Julian will simply add this into the scope of Stage 1. He is a project manager's nightmare.

But, I agree it would be interesting. New thread required.

[jdaw1]

Yes, I could find a way to show the data. Alex B. to gather.

[Alex Bridgeman]

All in good time. I know a few places to look for recent vintages but will struggle for earlier vintages.

[uncle tom]

Wouldn't it be interesting to collect together information on the grape varieties that ripened well and which were used in the final blends in past years. It might reveal some interesting predictions for expected future development. Imagine if we discovered that 1950, 1958, 1960, 1975, 1982 were all years in which there was a relatively small proportion of fully ripe Touriga Nacional.

According to Mayson, at the end of the 70's, Touriga Nacional accounted for only 0.1% of all vines - Tinta Roriz is probably the most significant component of the older VP's

However, I suspect that the big difference is that in the past, the decision on whether to declare hinged largely on the results from the old mixed vineyards, rather than the more recent varietal plantings.

Over the last 30 years or so, a high proportion of the mixed vineyards have been grubbed out and replaced by varietals. These new plantings have now come of age, and the quality of their output is now central to the decision on whether to declare.

2007 may have produced stocks of wine that will make excellent Reserves and LBV's, but the prospects for Vintage look much more problematic.

Even if they go for a crop of SQ's, what should they produce? A lasting wine of moderate quality, or a wine that will get good reviews at release, but not stand the test of time?

This could be the year when the trend towards varietal planting gets weighed in the balance..

..and found wanting!

Tom

[Andy Velebil]

Most of the growers (and there are over 30,000 of them) have unknown field blends. The larger Quintas and some smaller ones have been replacing their old field blends with varietal specific plantings. But the vast majority are sill unknown field blends. I've been to a number of quintas where, when asked, had no idea what exact grapes were in a particular area. Its kinda strange to hear that, especially coming from the largest wine producing state in the US, where everything is varietal specific. Varietal plantings have been getting more prominant though...its all about economics.

Tom, Don't get caught up in numbers. That is the first way to ruin a wine. Making wine is more than numbers, its tasting, evaluating, tweaking, etc. Sure the numbers give you a basic baseline, but those numbers can only give you so much. Nothing is better than the trained and experienced palate of the winemaker. I've had first hand knowledge about that, since my brother and a close friend both work at wineries, Ive seen and heard about those little "oppsies" that happen when someone adds (or doesn't) something to the wine solely because the "numbers" say they should.

Besides, you really have to look at more than just this years weather. Was there a lot of rain (or not) the previous year? this could leave more or less ground water for the roots to use the following year. Did they over fertilize or under? Did they spray to prevent mold..or not? There are a ton of factors that come into play and they are all different.

[uncle tom]

Andy,

Agreed that the smaller growers who have no vinification facilities are often farming small obscure low grade quintas with unknown varietal mixes.

They get paid little for their grapes, and the wines made tend to end up as standard tawnies and rubies.

But the re-planting of the A grade vineyards owned by the big names has been pretty relentless.

I'm not sure which numbers you're referring to - certainly a lot of factors have an influence on a season, but the key concern I had at the time was that a relatively cool and relatively short ripening season has never previously proved a winning formula for vintage port.

And while there's a first time for everything, my conversations of the last few days only serve to reinforce that concern.

Anyway, hopefully the 2008 season will put to rest all ideas of declaring 2007

On March 21st I noted that the buds had well and truly burst at Pinhao and that glorious spring weather prevailed. This was in stark contrast to the same day two years ago, when the chill grip of winter had yet to let go.

I am not sure how much rain fell over the winter - I looked at the flow levels in the Douro below the dam west of Pinhao, and thought it looked a bit lean - but I am not sure how they regulate the flow. The reservoir level was about 2ft below the overspill.

This was in stark contrast to other rivers I saw in Spain and France, which were all bank bursting brown torrents!

Tom

[Conky]

Do you think your views may have a tad more weight with the 'odd' expert now you've been our reporter on the ground?

I always paid attention, but you did get a little trashed for not speaking to the locals, and eating the Piri Piri chicken!

[uncle tom]

Conky,

I prefer a steak to the Piri Piri, and prefer talking to the minions rather than the masters.

If you had wanted to know whether Heathrow T5 was going to get off to a smooth start, who would you have talked to?

Willie Walsh - or a baggage handler?

Tom