when was vintage port bottled in the past?

[JB vintage]

Nowadays there are very clear rules for when vintage port, colheita and other port should be bottled. Current regulation says that vintage port must be bottled no earlier than 1 July the 2nd year after harvest and no later than 30 July the 3rd year after the harvest, i.e. approximately after 1.5-2.5 years. Does anyone know that the rules were in the past? When did the rules change?

[g-man]

I think those rules have been around since 1931 if my memory serves me (which it might not) with the formation of what is now the ivdp.

1756/57 was when the industry had it's first set of rules

Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo, The Marquis do Pombal, at that time set up Real Companhia and demarcated the douro region and gave ratings to each of the individual vineyards. (*http://taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wine/h ... is-pombal/)
I don't have any particular details on the specific rule and it has been said that such wines probably weren't as close to modern day port as we know it. But they were probably sweet as it was particular mentioned that D. Antonia Ferreira's casa ferreirinha's wines, were one of the few to be produced in a drier style. (trying to find my source for that, might have been mayson's book)

According to taylor's website (http://taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wine/h ... ification/)
the fortication en masse didn't happen until the mid 1800s

so all those events leading up seem to point to the 1930s where modern port recipe was set.

[uncle tom]

Vintage port as we know it today seems to have started to become uniform in style during the phylloxera disaster, around 1872 or thereabouts, with the British shippers appearing to lead the way.

Prior to that, there seems to be a lack of distinction between what we now know as vintage and what we call colheita.

The very old Ferreira 'vintage' port that is still around from 1815 and on, are in bottles that look consistant with bottling in the 1890's or early 1900's.

[RAYC]

Current regulation says that vintage port must be bottled no earlier than 1 July the 2nd year after harvest and no later than 30 July the 3rd year after the harvest, i.e. approximately after 1.5-2.5 years.

Is this correct? I thought the rules had changed so that VP can be bottled as soon as it has been officially approved by IVDP (port has to be submitted for approval between 3rd week of January and 30 June / September (?) in the second year after harvest, which means it can be bottled earlier than 1 July in the second year after harvest). Earliest date for shipping is then 1 May in the second year i think. (At least, that's my recollection of Mayson's text).

In terms of the 30 July in 3rd year deadline, i'm sure i have a web-page saved at home that tracks this - from memory i had thought it co-incided with the early-mid 70s (1973?) rule change that stated all VP must be Oporto-bottled (but i could be completely wrong...)

[DRT]

I think the reality is that Vintage Port was invented by British wine merchants and their more discerning customers and not by the shippers in Oporto.

Most of the best port was shipped in bulk within a year or two of the harvest and only some held back for ageing and blending. It was the wine merchants who chose when to bottle it and sell it. That continued until the early 1970s when the concept of rule-based port styles had taken hold and some merchants were not playing by the rules. That is the main reason why all premium styles ceased being shipped in bulk in the early 1970s and then standard ports ceased bulk shipment in the mid 1990s.

Quite when all the various rules governing each style came about I don't know but most of it was probably progressively from 1931 to 1970ish.

There is some useful information about rules on the "What is Port" section of infoportwine.com.

[Andy Velebil]

The current rules for VP being bottled between the second and third year after harvest wasn't established until after WW2, in the late 1940's.

[g-man]

The current rules for VP being bottled between the second and third year after harvest wasn't established until after WW2, in the late 1940's.

hye do you have a source for that?

would love to know

[Andy Velebil]

Yes. Paul Symington who's grandfather was on the commission that drew up the rules.

[g-man]

Yes. Paul Symington who's grandfather was on the commission that drew up the rules.

i mean, was it in chat

or do you have documentation,

I'm tryign to keep track of notes myself and have a docuemtn I'm working on detailing dates and facts about port.

[Andy Velebil]

Ill dig it up.

[g-man]

Ill dig it up.

thanks andy

[JB vintage]

Current regulation says that vintage port must be bottled no earlier than 1 July the 2nd year after harvest and no later than 30 July the 3rd year after the harvest, i.e. approximately after 1.5-2.5 years.

Is this correct? I thought the rules had changed so that VP can be bottled as soon as it has been officially approved by IVDP (port has to be submitted for approval between 3rd week of January and 30 June / September (?) in the second year after harvest, which means it can be bottled earlier than 1 July in the second year after harvest). Earliest date for shipping is then 1 May in the second year i think. (At least, that's my recollection of Mayson's text).

In terms of the 30 July in 3rd year deadline, i'm sure i have a web-page saved at home that tracks this - from memory i had thought it co-incided with the early-mid 70s (1973?) rule change that stated all VP must be Oporto-bottled (but i could be completely wrong...)

I think you are right on that the early botteling date has probably been changed. My old notes said "... no earlier than 1 July the 2nd year...", but when I looked at the regulations recently I could not find that date and assumed it was written somewere else. Reading it again now, the only restriction I can find on the early botteling date is that the samples for apporval can be delivered to IVDP no earlier than 3rd week of January year 2 and that the samples must be sent to IVDP at least 15 days before botteling. Thus, first possible botteling may occur in mid February the second year. As far as I understand.

You are correct in that 1 May the second year, is the first day it is allowed to sell/ship vintage port.

[JB vintage]

The current rules for VP being bottled between the second and third year after harvest wasn't established until after WW2, in the late 1940's.

hye do you have a source for that?

would love to know

I also thought that vintage "bottled after about 2 years", was established late 1940's. However, I have seen a Dow 1947 which is clearly stated as a vintage on the lable, but with a bottling date of 1951. Perhaps it was bottled just before the 2-3 year practice was mandatory?

[RAYC]

I think you are right on that the early botteling date has probably been changed. My old notes said "... no earlier than 1 July the 2nd year...", but when I looked at the regulations recently I could not find that date and assumed it was written somewere else. Reading it again now, the only restriction I can find on the early botteling date is that the samples for apporval can be delivered to IVDP no earlier than 3rd week of January year 2 and that the samples must be sent to IVDP at least 15 days before botteling. Thus, first possible botteling may occur in mid February the second year. As far as I understand.

I think that's right.

The latest regulation i can find that relates to the bottling date of "vintage port" is from 2005 (IVDP Regulamento n.o 36/2005 - link), which sets out the current position you outline above.

The preamble is interesting in that it seems to contain a potted history of legislation regarding categorisation:

Regulation of special categories Wine Oporto.
Recognition and discipline of certain terms Port wine are very old. This is the case, for example, Port Wine and Vintage Ruby. If the use of some of these terms dates from the mid eighteenth century, the legal discipline begins sketch in the early twentieth century to Decree No. 20,956 of 2 March 1932 on the trade of Port wines.
The economic importance and prestige however acquired by such particulars demanded legislative action or regulatory rigorous. Accordingly, the Port Wine Institute (IVP), in use its powers of discipline, regulation emanated from categories special port, approved by the General IVP on November 27, 1973 and in force to date, which is subjected to a detailed set of rules use the particulars Vintage, Late Bottled Vintage, port wine with date harvest and Port wine with indication of age. And then is Decree-Law No 166/86 of 26 June, approving Regulation of the Denomination of Origin Port, which in Article 11, paragraph 1, point c), defines and regulates, inter alia, The Vintage Port, Crusted Port, Late Bottled Vintage or LBV, Tawny, Ruby, with harvest date and indication age.

The 1932 legislation referred to is here (link), though not in a format that permits google translate to be used! I can't see anything specifically relating to bottling dates, however.

I am unable to find the IVP's 27 November 1973 legislation / regulation online. It would be interesting to see this (as the preamble seems to suggest that this is the crucial date in terms of setting the bottling window from 1 July in the second year to 30 July in the third year)

Decreto-Lei n.o 166/86 from 1986 is here: (link). Article 11 sets out the position that applied until 2005 (bottling from 1 July in the second year after harvest to 30 July in third year after harvest). I don't think this was necessarily a "new rule" at that point, as the preamble states that the purpose of the statute was to consolidate the various different rules relating to appelation of origin into one place (plus the 2005 preamble indicated that the 73 legislation relating to port categories was still in place at that time)

Hence it would be interesting to get hold of (i) the 1973 legislation / regulation (or whatever it is!), plus also (ii) whatever there is from the 1940s that Andy remember on this point (ideally original text in each case, rather than third-hand reports of what those things said).

[NB: IVDP have an interesting timeline of legislation from 1932 to 1973 (link) - unfortunately it is hard to track these down via google to have a look at the full text.]

[g-man]

The current rules for VP being bottled between the second and third year after harvest wasn't established until after WW2, in the late 1940's.

hye do you have a source for that?

would love to know

I also thought that vintage "bottled after about 2 years", was established late 1940's. However, I have seen a Dow 1947 which is clearly stated as a vintage on the lable, but with a bottling date of 1951. Perhaps it was bottled just before the 2-3 year practice was mandatory?

might have been a newly printed avery label

i'll check my bottle of dow 47 and see what it says

[RAYC]

However, I have seen a Dow 1947 which is clearly stated as a vintage on the lable, but with a bottling date of 1951. Perhaps it was bottled just before the 2-3 year practice was mandatory?

Don't Sandeman also have some funny 4-year VP bottlings from the 50s?