Quality of 'regular' VPs after the advent of super premium VPs

[MigSU]

This is something that has been bothering me for a few years, now, but I haven't discussed it with anyone else yet.

Correct me if my thinking isn't quite on point, but to me the logic seems inescapable. Let's take Graham as an example. Before the appearance of The Stone Terraces VP, the grapes from the stone terraces would go into the regular Graham VP. Now, these grapes are of very high quality - that's the reason they now make a premium VP just from that vineyard. Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the regular Graham VP has therefore gone down in quality? I know we don't have a parallel universe with which to compare what would happen if the regular VP DID have the grapes from the terraces, but I don't think it's too much of a leap to assume that, if you remove the highest quality ingredient, the overall quality will drop.

This has been bothering me because, while I understand why producers don't want to talk about it (it's not in their interest), I've not seen any discussion amongst Port consumers about this issue. Plus, it's not like the prices of the regular VPs sans premium grapes have gone down - quite the opposite, prices have been rising quite steadily.

I would love to hear some thoughts on this!

[Mike J. W.]

I never thought about it before, but that's a very valid question. A counterpoint question would be is there an overall improvement in the quality of Ports because of improvements in vineyard practices and vinification in the last 2 decades or so? That's probably a slight counterpoint and not a full throated argument, but it is another variable in the mix. At the very least, you would think that the flavor profile has changed somewhat because of the change in the mix of and quality of the grapes used. Trying to prove that out would be next to impossible I imagine as every year is different due to weather, time of harvest etc.

[MigSU]

^^ My thoughts exactly, re: proving anything for or against. I think the only thing that is safe to say is that, on any given year, the 'regular' VP without premium grapes is, in all likelihood, inferior to what it would've been had you used the premium grapes in the blend.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm not as convinced. If you're making the perfect blend of 90,000 litres of your prime Graham's Vintage Port, let's say you need 4,500 litres of Stone Terraces.

But if you're only making 45,000 litres of your prime Port, you'll only need 2,250 litres of Stone Terraces. So what do you do with the other 2,250 litres you don't need for the prime blend? You could put it into 6 Grapes or into the Crusted — or why not bottle it as a micro cuvée of 250 cases and let the 6 Grapes blend drop in quality by an unnoticeably tiny fraction from where it could be?

[MigSU]

^^ I'm not sure that, in years of lower bottling numbers (but still a 'classic' year, no SQVP shenanigans), they're leaving out from the final blend any stone terraces grapes. The grapes are too good for that. I'll try to ask around, though, could be an interesting conversation.

[Andy Velebil]

Tasting side by side in the past “classic” declarations, I haven’t seen any slide in quality of the regular cuvées.

Two thoughts, one is I agree with alex.

Second, a producer has access to many vineyards of their own and purchased grapes/juice. Many of which have every bit as good of grapes as “X” vineyard that makes a premium cuvée. VP is such a small percentage in such rare years that it is quite easy to supplant one vineyard’s grapes for another.

That all said, I generally don’t find the premium cuvées that much better than their regular counterpart. Perhaps a point or two. Not a big difference given the big price difference. That may be another discussion for later.

[flash_uk]

Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the regular Graham VP has therefore gone down in quality?

Plus, it's not like the prices of the regular VPs sans premium grapes have gone down - quite the opposite, prices have been rising quite steadily.

“Prices have been rising quite steadily”, regardless of whether Stone Terraces grapes have been present in the blend, AND/OR the overall harvest was poor/stellar…

Suspect Graham line would be: “We produce Graham VP. We also have this ST vineyard, where in exceptional vintages we produce Graham ST. Sometimes the ST vineyard grapes aren’t so special, and in those situations we’re really generous and chuck those grapes in Graham VP. Be grateful. But the Graham VP price, is the price. Move along.”

[Glenn E.]

Like Andy, I've tasted The Stone Terraces head-to-head with Graham every time GST has been released. And I have not noticed any drop-off in quality of the regular Graham. In fact, some of those have been among the best (young) Graham's Vintage Ports that I've ever tasted.

But I asked this question early on, as I started doing the GST verticals. IIRC I cornered Dominic in order to ask.

He said that while yes, Port Arthur and Cardenhos are some of the best grapes that come from Malvedos, they're also relatively small parcels. IIRC they're something like 1.8 ha combined, and there are 90 ha under vine at Malvedos. And they're not even using all of the grapes from those parcels to make The Stone Terraces.

Would ~600 cases of wine from The Stone Terraces have made a difference if blended into ~6000 cases of the regular Graham? Possibly, I guess? But the difference would likely be extremely minor given that the super cuvee is - as Andy said - usually only a point better than the regular blend. So a tenth of a point better if mixed into the regular blend? In that case it makes more financial sense to release the super cuvee at 3-4x the price point of the regular blend.

For some producers it may also be that the super cuvees show a different character than the regular blends, and because of that should not be blended into the regular blend (or only in controlled amounts) or it might not match the house style as closely as they'd like. In which case releasing a super cuvee just gives them an extra revenue stream without affecting the quality of the regular blend at all.

[jdaw1]

I recall this question being asked about Taylor 2000 and TVVV 2000.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I’m also thinking back to 1995.

1995 has the reputation of having been a vintage which was of Vintage quality, but which had the misfortune to have followed 1994. Perhaps as a result of 1994 having been so good, generous in quantity and before back-to-back declarations became fashionable, 1995 was not a declared vintage.

The original micro-terroir cuvée is Quinta do Noval’s Nacional. There is Nacional 1994 and 1996. There is no Nacional 1995. Rumour has it that the 1995 Nacional was blended into the 1995 regular Noval vintage Port.

I’ve tasted 1995 Noval. It’s a lovely wine. It’s not as good as 1994 or 1997. If the rumours are true, blending 200+ cases worth of juice into the regular vintage did not materially improve the quality compared to the 1994 regular Noval vintage Port - which did not include any Nacional juice.

Perhaps this is a small bit of the jigsaw that suggests that a good blender can use micro-cuvée juice as a salt & pepper seasoning for a final blend, but can also blend and bottle a micro-cuvée wine without sacrificing any quality from the “shipper name” blend.