I have asked David G. by WhatsApp and by email.Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:06 Thu 05 Sep 2024Perhaps an email to someone at Fonseca is in order? Does anyone have a contact that they could ask?
Was Guimaraens a separate company that released its own Ports back in the day? And why do the more recent (1982, 2015) bottles of Quinta do Cruzeiro say Guimaraens but not Fonseca? (I.e. does TFP still reserve the right to use Guimaraens as a stand-alone brand, as opposed to a second label for Fonseca?)
Port brand abbreviations
Re: Port brand abbreviations
- Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
But it's harvest time, so don't expect a reply until December.jdaw1 wrote: ↑22:01 Thu 05 Sep 2024I have asked David G. by WhatsApp and by email.Glenn E. wrote: ↑17:06 Thu 05 Sep 2024Perhaps an email to someone at Fonseca is in order? Does anyone have a contact that they could ask?
Was Guimaraens a separate company that released its own Ports back in the day? And why do the more recent (1982, 2015) bottles of Quinta do Cruzeiro say Guimaraens but not Fonseca? (I.e. does TFP still reserve the right to use Guimaraens as a stand-alone brand, as opposed to a second label for Fonseca?)
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Port brand abbreviations
The history of Guimaraens is very complicated. However, Fonseca and Guimaraens were two separate companies until Alistair merged them, IIRC in the late 60’s. I will look back through an old article I wrote on the history of the company (old computer and need to find the file. But it was an article on FTLOP).
Edit: Found it. 1967 they were merged.
https://www.fortheloveofport.com/fonsec ... orce-club/
Edit: Found it. 1967 they were merged.
https://www.fortheloveofport.com/fonsec ... orce-club/
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Huh. Yes, that's a rather complex history! I have seen and tasted Fonseca Guimaraens Ports from both 1964 and 1965. I assume TFP owned both prior to the merge?Andy Velebil wrote: ↑01:41 Fri 06 Sep 2024 The history of Guimaraens is very complicated. However, Fonseca and Guimaraens were two separate companies until Alistair merged them, IIRC in the late 60’s. I will look back through an old article I wrote on the history of the company (old computer and need to find the file. But it was an article on FTLOP).
Edit: Found it. 1967 they were merged.
https://www.fortheloveofport.com/fonsec ... orce-club/
Winesearcher has greyed-out vintages going back to 1919 for Fonseca Guimaraens, but without being able to see pictures associated with those listings I suspect that some (all?) of them are actually just Guimaraens and not Fonseca Guimaraens.
Glenn Elliott
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
But you could do a VPID search.Glenn E. wrote:Winesearcher has greyed-out vintages going back to 1919 for Fonseca Guimaraens, but without being able to see pictures associated with those listings I suspect that some (all?) of them are actually just Guimaraens and not Fonseca Guimaraens.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Vista Alegre: VA?
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
VA is an unfortunate abbreviation.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Indeed. But I cannot think of a better abbreviation to use.
But also... the company is Vista Alegre, but the brand is Vallegre. I think that means that the abbreviation should be derived from Vallegre, though even in that case I cannot think of anything better than VA. Though I believe in that case it should be Va?
Glenn Elliott
Re: Port brand abbreviations
https://www.vallegre.pt/en/vallegre/
V’s in use:
V’s in use:
V = Quinta do Vesuvio
VC = Capela da Quinta do Vesuvio
VDM = Quinta Vale Dona Maria
VF = Quinta de Val da Figueira
Vl = Quinta do Vallado
VM = Quinta de Vale Meão
Vr = Porto Valriz
VS = Vieira de Sousa
Vz = Quinta de Ventozelo
VZ = Van Zeller
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Va would seem more appropriate.
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
My understanding is that “VALLEGRE” is used as the brand for table wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
And that “VISTA ALEGRE” is used as the brand for Port wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
High likelihood of me being thick btw, as it’s late.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
And that “VISTA ALEGRE” is used as the brand for Port wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
High likelihood of me being thick btw, as it’s late.
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Now that you mention it, you're absolutely right. I don't recall ever seeing a Vallegre Port.M.Charlton wrote: ↑00:14 Thu 19 Sep 2024 My understanding is that “VALLEGRE” is used as the brand for table wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
And that “VISTA ALEGRE” is used as the brand for Port wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
High likelihood of me being thick btw, as it’s late.
VA it is, then. Good luck, Vista Alegre.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Huh. I do have Port in my cellar labeled with both, but not any that is just labeled with Vallegre.M.Charlton wrote: ↑00:14 Thu 19 Sep 2024 My understanding is that “VALLEGRE” is used as the brand for table wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
And that “VISTA ALEGRE” is used as the brand for Port wines.
See —> https://www.vallegre.pt/conteudos/produ ... &idioma=en
High likelihood of me being thick btw, as it’s late.
VA it is.
Glenn Elliott
- Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Carlos Alonso Douro Wines Lda have vineyards around Alijó. While mainly a winemaker, they have also been making Vintage Port for the last decade or so and have declared several vintages in those years.
Their Vintage Ports are bottled, shipped and sold under the Piano brand. (Their Peace & Love brand has, so far, only been used for non Vintage Ports.)
We need an abbreviation for them.
P - the single capital letter feels wrong for a small family business.
Pi - is used for Pintas
Pa - is used for Quinta da Pacheca
Which really only leaves Pn.
Any objections?
Their Vintage Ports are bottled, shipped and sold under the Piano brand. (Their Peace & Love brand has, so far, only been used for non Vintage Ports.)
We need an abbreviation for them.
P - the single capital letter feels wrong for a small family business.
Pi - is used for Pintas
Pa - is used for Quinta da Pacheca
Which really only leaves Pn.
Any objections?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Diez - Dz or DZ?
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
DzJustin K wrote:Diez - Dz or DZ?
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Re: Port brand abbreviations
Pn seems appropriate.Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑15:16 Fri 04 Oct 2024 Carlos Alonso Douro Wines Lda have vineyards around Alijó. While mainly a winemaker, they have also been making Vintage Port for the last decade or so and have declared several vintages in those years.
Their Vintage Ports are bottled, shipped and sold under the Piano brand. (Their Peace & Love brand has, so far, only been used for non Vintage Ports.)
We need an abbreviation for them.
P - the single capital letter feels wrong for a small family business.
Pi - is used for Pintas
Pa - is used for Quinta da Pacheca
Which really only leaves Pn.
Any objections?
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑15:16 Fri 04 Oct 2024Carlos Alonso Douro Wines Lda have vineyards around Alijó. While mainly a winemaker, they have also been making Vintage Port for the last decade or so and have declared several vintages in those years.
Their Vintage Ports are bottled, shipped and sold under the Piano brand.
No objection to Pn.
Re: Port brand abbreviations
Ugh.Alex Bridgeman wrote: ↑15:16 Fri 04 Oct 2024 P - the single capital letter feels wrong for a small family business.
Pi - is used for Pintas
Pa - is used for Quinta da Pacheca
Which really only leaves Pn.
Any objections?
Pn should be Pintas and Pi should be Piano.
It's confusing enough to me to suggest that, if Pi cannot be changed, then we should use Po for Piano.
Glenn Elliott