The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
-
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
- Location: Somerset, UK
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
I know exactly what you mean but I think there's a big difference between 'Britain' and 'British Isles'. One has always been the name of the island you are on. The other is arguably, at least, a term describing a power relationship developed over hundreds of years and only relatively recently being re-thought. If the Scots want to pretend that Scotland is not on an island called Britain, good luck to them.DRT wrote:What Daniel described strikes at the root of the problem. I am quite certain that the great unwashed element in the Yes camp will believe that being an in independent Scot means not having to be British.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
We agree entirely - I just think there are a couple of million people with their faces painted blue who haven't quite realised that reality yet.
For the record, I am firmly of the view that the archipelago known as The British Isles includes a very large emerald coloured island, but I can see why that geographic reality is politically unacceptable to the unenlightened.
For the record, I am firmly of the view that the archipelago known as The British Isles includes a very large emerald coloured island, but I can see why that geographic reality is politically unacceptable to the unenlightened.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Don't be fooled by the "we hate the Tories" mob. In my youth the Salmonites were known as "The Scottish Tories". Regardless of whether they are voting yes or no there will remain a deep distrust of politicians whether they are in Holyrood or Westminster or Brussels.LGTrotter wrote:Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.
Betfair paid out on No votes today.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Paid out? How?
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
If you placed a bet with Betfair on a no vote they have paid out the winnings. Google it.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Just did. Blimey.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
I tend to agree. Last night I was thinking 58:42. Sadly, even if No carries the day, I suspect we are in for months and years of tedious devolution debates, which in the end (over say 10-15 years) might prove to be worse than a straight Yes.DRT wrote:My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Indeed.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
My last post directed at Daniel.
It will only be drawn out if it is close. Which is why it needs not to be.
It will only be drawn out if it is close. Which is why it needs not to be.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt know thy Port
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Yes indeed. There are many Welsh, Scots and N Irish who shun the idea that they are British. And many also who rejoice that they are British.djewesbury wrote:You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
"British" was in use long before England existed as a single state. The problem you allude to is actually the reverse in that "Britains" have for two centuries or more been commonly known as "English" throughout the rest of the world. That's the bit that causes the hackles to rise on the back of the Celtic necks.AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
I elect Wolfgang as my proxy.flash_uk wrote:I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
Sensible people that I have spoken to today are now seriously worried that the nationalistic frenzy is pushing this in the wrong direction.
Surely common sense will prevail!!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
That should be reported to the police, pronto.DRT wrote:A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14916
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Are there UN observers and independent monitors watching the vote and count?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
Is it too late for placemats?
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich 12 Year Old
Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich 12 Year Old
Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.djewesbury wrote:Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- djewesbury
- Graham’s 1970
- Posts: 8166
- Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?
Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:
The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old
The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old
The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich 12 Year Old
Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old
Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old
...all in 5cl format.
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.djewesbury wrote:Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn