A commercial tasting, organised at the River Room, Millbank Tower. I was slightly apprehensive since the ticket described "four taster glasses of Port plus bite size cheese and oat cakes" but in practice both glasses and cheese were large and regularly topped up. I have forgotten the surname of the guy who gave the talk (Tom was his first-name) but he was good and I pointed him in the direction of if he has a recreational interest in the wine, too.
The Ports were the usual commercial tasting selection of the First Estate Ruby Reserve, the 2004 LBV, 2001 Vargellas and the 10 y/o tawny. I'll attempt to post some tasting notes about them, but what struck me was how much nicer the Ruby Reserve is than the LBV. Both on the nose and in the mouth it is much more vibrant a fruit-filled, almost reminding me (on the nose) of a young VP, whilst in the mouth there is little of the excessive heat which can mar other Rubies. The LBV was, by contrast, underwhelming and definitely not worth the premium. The Vargellas was quite disappointing, but then I haven't tried anything from 2001 which I have liked.
The pairings all seemed pretty good to me and were as follows (with apologies to the real cheese aficionados on for my notes):
Ruby: Tunworth, a Camembert-style soft cow's milk cheese from Hampshire and the 2006 Supreme Champion cheese of Great Britain. I liked the texture and the creaminess but there is a strong flavour of cabbages which appealed less to me.
LBV: Dorstone, an ashed-rolled soft goat's milk cheese from Herefordshire produced by Neal's Yard. Quite a mellow cheese (notably un-"goaty") but with strong acidity, slightly nutty from the ashes. Caroline, who is quite serious about goat's cheese, thought that this was fantastic.
Vargellas: Colston Bassett Stilton. This was a Neal's Yard variation of their standard recipe which, apparently, is pierced less and so is less blue. I saw some sense in this since the none-blue parts of the cheese are quite nice but I just find Stilton to be too salty to be really enjoyable.
Tawny: Montgomery's Cheddar. This was my favourite: a fantastic texture; slightly creamy, slighty crystalline and with a flavour that was not too overpowering but subtle and nutty. Great stuff; is anyone up for a Port and cheddar evening when we eat our way through a whole one?
Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
Dear Port Forum
Although you may be fooled into thinking this is Ghandhih here, you'd be wrong. This is in fact his wife - yes SCP-DFO. I feel compelled to post a reply to this thread. I'm sorry it is not in my own name, but I can't find either my login or password - I will rectify this! Apologies if I haven't got the ettiquette quite right.
So a cheese and port evening. That's something some of you know I would like. Should we host one? Quite probably - watch this space. As someone who is rather partial to the odd bit of cheese and a nice VP, I thought I may share a few thoughts with you on a couple of the cheeses presented by Taylor at this tasting.
Colston Bassett Stilton - always salty. Cropwell Bishop - rarely salty. If you like salty Stilton, buy Colston Bassett, if you prefer creamy stilton, buy cropwell Bishop. I have supplied cheese for 5 weddings now and would only ever consider using Cropwell Bishop and this year actually purchased it direct from the creamery. You don't have to buy in bulk they can do small orders too!
Montgomery's Cheddar - a favourite among the trade. This cheddar is seen as an industry standard. I wonder whether you had pasteurised or unpasteurised and how old the cheddar was? All these things impact greatly on the flavour of the cheese and when tasted side by side (as I did with Julian Wiseman and Ghandhih in 2001) they offer great variance. As I recall our favourite was a pasteurised cheese as the unpasteurised ones were quite "farm-like" and didn't go quite so well with the ports we tasted that evening. However, as time has passed, we tend to steer clear of Montgommery's Cheddar as it is quite harsh and we're not keen on the "crunchy" texture in the mouth.
Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
Goats cheese - in my opinion not a great partner for port because the flavour can be quite clawing in the mouth and this affects the taste buds.
So there's a few thoughts from me on cheese and port. But please don't add port (any port) to a round of Stilton it does neither any favours!
Seasons greetings!
Helen Gandy SCP-DFO
Although you may be fooled into thinking this is Ghandhih here, you'd be wrong. This is in fact his wife - yes SCP-DFO. I feel compelled to post a reply to this thread. I'm sorry it is not in my own name, but I can't find either my login or password - I will rectify this! Apologies if I haven't got the ettiquette quite right.
So a cheese and port evening. That's something some of you know I would like. Should we host one? Quite probably - watch this space. As someone who is rather partial to the odd bit of cheese and a nice VP, I thought I may share a few thoughts with you on a couple of the cheeses presented by Taylor at this tasting.
Colston Bassett Stilton - always salty. Cropwell Bishop - rarely salty. If you like salty Stilton, buy Colston Bassett, if you prefer creamy stilton, buy cropwell Bishop. I have supplied cheese for 5 weddings now and would only ever consider using Cropwell Bishop and this year actually purchased it direct from the creamery. You don't have to buy in bulk they can do small orders too!
Montgomery's Cheddar - a favourite among the trade. This cheddar is seen as an industry standard. I wonder whether you had pasteurised or unpasteurised and how old the cheddar was? All these things impact greatly on the flavour of the cheese and when tasted side by side (as I did with Julian Wiseman and Ghandhih in 2001) they offer great variance. As I recall our favourite was a pasteurised cheese as the unpasteurised ones were quite "farm-like" and didn't go quite so well with the ports we tasted that evening. However, as time has passed, we tend to steer clear of Montgommery's Cheddar as it is quite harsh and we're not keen on the "crunchy" texture in the mouth.
Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
Goats cheese - in my opinion not a great partner for port because the flavour can be quite clawing in the mouth and this affects the taste buds.
So there's a few thoughts from me on cheese and port. But please don't add port (any port) to a round of Stilton it does neither any favours!
Seasons greetings!
Helen Gandy SCP-DFO
A man who likes vintage ports, and we're not talking Carthage
Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
One of the weddings to which Helen Gandy SCP-DFO supplied cheese was mine (+ SCP-DFF, of course). Always Cropwell Bishop, always. If you want salt, eat cashews.Ghandih wrote:Colston Bassett Stilton - always salty. Cropwell Bishop - rarely salty. If you like salty Stilton, buy Colston Bassett, if you prefer creamy stilton, buy cropwell Bishop. I have supplied cheese for 5 weddings
Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
I'm very fond of English cheddars, in particular one I can get here in Seattle (sometimes at Costco, usually at QFC) from Ford Farm that is labeled a coastal cheddar. It's nice & sharp but also slightly sweet and has a rich nutty flavor. It goes great with Port!
Glenn Elliott
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Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
Oh dear...I was worried that one of the more serious cheese-eaters would read this post but thought I might have got away from the biggest cheese fan of them all...
Apparently it was the unpasteurised one, though the sheet they gave out didn't give its age. Apologies for the stupid questions but when you say "farm-like" do you mean it tastes more like something thrown together by a dairy-farmer in his kitchen or it has certain "farm-yard" flavours? And which cheddars are worth seeking out as alternatives to them?Ghandih wrote:Montgomery's Cheddar - a favourite among the trade. This cheddar is seen as an industry standard. I wonder whether you had pasteurised or unpasteurised and how old the cheddar was? All these things impact greatly on the flavour of the cheese and when tasted side by side (as I did with Julian Wiseman and Ghandhih in 2001) they offer great variance. As I recall our favourite was a pasteurised cheese as the unpasteurised ones were quite "farm-like" and didn't go quite so well with the ports we tasted that evening. However, as time has passed, we tend to steer clear of Montgommery's Cheddar as it is quite harsh and we're not keen on the "crunchy" texture in the mouth.
This was something that bothered me about most of the soft cheeses: they adhere to the palate in such a way which I think can be quite distorting to the flavour of the Port. Perhaps not so much of a problem when the Port is cheap and the cheese is expensive but I'm not sure if it is such a great idea when drinking better (and more subtly flavoured) vintage Port.Ghandih wrote:Goats cheese - in my opinion not a great partner for port because the flavour can be quite clawing in the mouth and this affects the taste buds.
Does one of those share its name with the site of a notable battle in Belgium, which I think Alex gave us to try last Summer?!Ghandih wrote:Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
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Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
I'm sure I don't know what either of you mean. You must be referring to Somerset Brie or perhaps St Endellion (which is actually rather good and my cheese of choice when in Cornwall). Anything else is not worth buying and should be left on the delicatessen's shelf in Wokingham, where it belongs.JacobH wrote:Does one of those share its name with the site of a notable battle in Belgium, which I think Alex gave us to try last Summer?!Ghandih wrote:Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
I can confirm that this is vile stuff that should not be purchased by anyone reading this forum. If you do buy it, which you really shouldn't, make sure you don't leave it sitting at room temperature until it goes all lovely and soft and gooey and doesn't taste absolutely delicious with a 40 year old vintage port. You won't like it. Honest.AHB wrote:I'm sure I don't know what either of you mean. You must be referring to Somerset Brie or perhaps St Endellion (which is actually rather good and my cheese of choice when in Cornwall). Anything else is not worth buying and should be left on the delicatessen's shelf in Wokingham, where it belongs.JacobH wrote:Does one of those share its name with the site of a notable battle in Belgium, which I think Alex gave us to try last Summer?!Ghandih wrote:Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
I’m glad to hear that. I had a near-miss this afternoon passing through Wokingham but managed to pick up half-a-dozen other cheeses instead. I think they were named after a concert-hall in London. Should I take care to stop them going soft and gooey?DRT wrote:I can confirm that this is vile stuff that should not be purchased by anyone reading this forum. If you do buy it, which you really shouldn't, make sure you don't leave it sitting at room temperature until it goes all lovely and soft and gooey and doesn't taste absolutely delicious with a 40 year old vintage port. You won't like it. Honest.AHB wrote:I'm sure I don't know what either of you mean. You must be referring to Somerset Brie or perhaps St Endellion (which is actually rather good and my cheese of choice when in Cornwall). Anything else is not worth buying and should be left on the delicatessen's shelf in Wokingham, where it belongs.JacobH wrote:Does one of those share its name with the site of a notable battle in Belgium, which I think Alex gave us to try last Summer?!Ghandih wrote:Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
- Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Taylor and Cheese, December 2010
So that's why my deli had run out of that particular cheese! Half a dozen is probably a week's production!JacobH wrote:I’m glad to hear that. I had a near-miss this afternoon passing through Wokingham but managed to pick up half-a-dozen other cheeses instead. I think they were named after a concert-hall in London. Should I take care to stop them going soft and gooey?DRT wrote:I can confirm that this is vile stuff that should not be purchased by anyone reading this forum. If you do buy it, which you really shouldn't, make sure you don't leave it sitting at room temperature until it goes all lovely and soft and gooey and doesn't taste absolutely delicious with a 40 year old vintage port. You won't like it. Honest.AHB wrote:I'm sure I don't know what either of you mean. You must be referring to Somerset Brie or perhaps St Endellion (which is actually rather good and my cheese of choice when in Cornwall). Anything else is not worth buying and should be left on the delicatessen's shelf in Wokingham, where it belongs.JacobH wrote:Does one of those share its name with the site of a notable battle in Belgium, which I think Alex gave us to try last Summer?!Ghandih wrote:Soft cheeses: If you like French then a Chaource is hard to beat - but make sure it's ripe. If you prefer English, then I can think of several but Alex may kill me for broadcasting them on the forum!
However, I was happy with my purchase - a round of "the other one".
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.