1925 Taylor Fladgate & Yeatman Vargellas port

[Vargellas]

Port Forum,

I have a bottle of 1925 Taylor Fladgate & Yeatman Vargellas port. I am in search of any information about this bottle.

The bottle appears to be a Colheita (single vintage wood aged
Port..not a "Vintage Port") as it has a Selo (paper strip over the top)
that wasn't used until the late 1930's.

In advance thank you all for your information and feedback!

I will be adding more pictures.

[jdaw1]

If genuine, very unusual!

• Hugh Barty-King, in The Salters’ Company 1394–1994, page 126, describes the damage to the wine stocks after Salters’ Hall was bombed on 10 May 1941. Happily, “The 50 dozen Taylors 1925 appeared sound”.

• It is also mentioned in various official sources of Taylor themselves.

See pp473–4 of the first edition of Port Vintages, or p518 of the second edition.

Sources suggest bottle aged, so yours might be same but late bottled, or different.

[PhilW]

Hi and welcome to and a very interesting bottle you have.

The Taylor Vargellas 1925 is a vintage port listed with evidence in "The Book" (by jdaw1 on this site). I'm assuming that as the owner of such a venerable bottle, you probably know of/about the Quinta da Vargellas vineyard (here and here for some initial background just in case - note the spelling, no "i").

Regarding the selo, while you are correct in saying that this bottle (if bottled circa 1927) would have been bottled before Selos were in use, my understanding is that if bottles were bottled in Portugal, then kept in their cellars, and the subsequently later released to the market (which happens with many older vintages, often including recorking) that they will have a new selo applied at that time if they did not have one already. Assuming that is correct, it would explain how your bottle could have a selo and still be a 1925 vintage port.

[Vargellas]

Thank you for the reply, I did edit my spelling error Again thank very much I appreciate you taking the time to reply!

[Vargellas]

I am 99% confident the bottle is genuine, a close friend of mine had the bottle given to him while traveling, the bottle was passed on to me some 13-14 years ago.

[DRT]

The white capped T-cork and white capsule remind me of a Fonseca from the 1930's that some of us tasted at the RAF Club many years ago. I think it might have been an early example of LBV.

[Vargellas]

Thank you for your post!

[PhilW]

Interesting looking further at the additional photos you've added to your post.
From what I can see currently, it does indeed look like a T-stopper rather than driven cork, which as DRT mentioned makes it much less likely to be VP again; also the paper tape over the cap doesn't look like a normal port selo to me - would it be possible to post a couple of extra pics of the capsule/"selo"?

[Vargellas]

Interesting looking further at the additional photos you've added to your post.
From what I can see currently, it does indeed look like a T-stopper rather than driven cork, which as DRT mentioned makes it much less likely to be VP again; also the paper tape over the cap doesn't look like a normal port selo to me - would it be possible to post a couple of extra pics of the capsule/"selo"?

[Vargellas]

What type of collector would be interested in this bottle? Are there collectors that try to collect every year of a certain style of Port?

Thank you, Joe

[Andy Velebil]

That does not appear to be the remnants of a Selo. Rather it appears to be an old tax stamp.

It also looks like the capsule has already been cut around the base of the t-cork.

Better pics are needed.

[PhilW]

Thanks for posting the extra pictures It's certainly an odd one, always interesting to (virtually) examine unusual old bottles.
Given the T-stopper, it's extremely unlikely to be VP, and as Andy has said, the paper strip is not a selo; it looks like a tax stamp (which might be consistent). The fact that the T-stopper looks to be disconnected from the remnants of capsule on bottle neck is a concern, but it does look original.
The tax stamp appears to only be present on one side, and I can't tell from the pictures whether it is intact or not, and hence whether the bottle might have had the contents drunk and the bottle refilled. Assuming not, then given the T-stopper, a colheita perhaps bottled relatively young seems most likely.

[Vargellas]

I will add more quality pictures soon.

[Mike J. W.]

I would say that although the seal looks like it's sliced open, on one side, the side with the tax stamp looks like it is fully intact. To me that would say that the bottle has not been opened and refilled because the logistics of doing so would necessitate the tax stamp being cut open as well.

[Vargellas]

I agree, I have posted new pictures.

[winesecretary]

I think there are too many questions about it for it to have market value, but it would be a very good buy-in to a Vargellas tasting.

[Vargellas]

What would be the questions from someone with interest ?

Thank you, Joe

[Glenn E.]

I would say that although the seal looks like it's sliced open, on one side, the side with the tax stamp looks like it is fully intact. To me that would say that the bottle has not been opened and refilled because the logistics of doing so would necessitate the tax stamp being cut open as well.

... unless the tax stamp was applied after the bottle was opened and re-closed.

It isn't clear to me that the capsule on the tax stamp side is intact. In fact it kind of looks to me like the bottle has been opened at some point, and was perhaps "re-sealed" using a tax stamp to attempt to cover up that it has been opened.

The t-stopper is curious to me regardless. Were they even using t-stoppers like that in those decades? Just sitting here without any reference, 1925 seems too old to have a t-stopper at all. But even if t-stoppers were in use that long ago, is there any way to tell what material the t-stopper is made of? (I.e. if plastic, that would be a huge red flag.)

[Andy Velebil]

Regardless if it has been opened or not, there is obvious signs of seepage. But i can’t see the fill level.

One thing bothering me is the “R” on the label. I went back through old pics of their cellar and I think it means Reserva. Which I think would indicate a tawny of some type, based on some pics I have of other older stuff from them.

I don’t see any remains of an old Selo. Based on the typed label and not a formal label, as it appears to be the type used in-house, I’d suspect this was possibly given to someone from the company. Or was a sample that never got used.

Value is hard to say. What is the fill level? Where has it been stored it’s life? Etc? Odds are it’s drinkable but the quality highly uncertain.

Thank you for uploading more pics, quite fun analyzing.

[Andy Velebil]

I’ve zoomed in on the stamp. I can make out some of what appears to be on it.

“Financas” = finances
“Portugal”
“Damoeda” = currency
“Casa” = house
“Minis…” (maybe Ministerio?) = ministry

Not sure what order they are supposed to be in. But maybe “Finances Casa Damoeda Portugal Ministero” ?

[Vargellas]

The top of the green ruler is the fill level.

[Vargellas]

The top of the green ruler is the fill level.

[Vargellas]

I have reached out to Taylor Fladgate company directly, I will post their response.

[Will W.]

What would be the questions from someone with interest ?

Thank you, Joe

A number of the questions have already been posed, at least indirectly. Others, set out below, would be (very) difficult to answer. Whatever the case:

1. Who gave the bottle to the friend who gave it to you, and where did the original source get it from - and roughly when?
2. During which temporal period was the tax seal in question used?
3. Were such tax seals used on port wine? I have seen such seals on bottles coming into my possession in Portugal, though off the top of my head only on still wines - both Portuguese and foreign, I believe from the 1960s and 1970s. (I would check for myself, save for being away from my cellar.)
4. Who applied tax seals in Portugal (i.e., retailers or producers)?
5. What is the capsule made from?
6. Is the capsule cut all the way around the base of the t-stopper? (Answering this query would necessitate steaming off the tax seal.)
7. What is the top of the t-stopper made from? Bakelite or a more modern plastic?
8. When were t-stoppers first used in the Douro?
9. What markings, if any, are on the bottom of the bottle?

If the bottle appeared nowadays at auction in Portugal, I would suspect immediately that it was likely a poor-quality fake given the presence of the tax seal, the unusual label and the use of a t-stopper. At best, I would take the view that the original contents had been removed, given the available photographic evidence pointing to the capsule being broken around the top of the t-stopper. In mitigation, in this case, I note that you have had the bottle for some time and that it was given to you by a trusted source, who (I gather) had it gifted to him. Fake bottles of port, which I see with increasing and depressing frequency in Portugal, are usually put together more artfully than that which is shown in the pictures you have so kindly posted.

Given the considerable uncertainty with respect to the authenticity of the bottle, or otherwise its contents, which together negate its monetary value, my suggestion is that you open the wine at your leisure. At that point, it ought to be clear whether what you were given is, indeed, of considerable age - be it some sort of (late-bottled) vintage or a colheita. If and when you do open the wine, please let us know what you discover. Suffice it to note that the readers of this forum, or at any rate a great many of us, enjoy mysteries of this nature - ideally arrived at with no (great) personal expenditure.

[MigSU]

I’ve zoomed in on the stamp. I can make out some of what appears to be on it.

“Financas” = finances
“Portugal”
“Damoeda” = currency
“Casa” = house
“Minis…” (maybe Ministerio?) = ministry

Not sure what order they are supposed to be in. But maybe “Finances Casa Damoeda Portugal Ministero” ?

Good eye. It says "Ministério das Finanças Casa da Moeda Portugal".

"Ministério das Finanças" is the finance ministry. "Casa da Moeda" is roughly equivalent to the Royal Mint (but with some extra duties, like issuing these kinds of stamps).