Croft 1963 - advice sought

[Steve Veness]

Hi All,

I am an enthusiastic but not desperately knowledgeable port-lover, seeking a bit of guidance, if I may.

I have just bought a case of Croft 1963 at a country auction (from a deceased estate). I may have made an expensive mistake but that's how we learn isn't it?

There wasn't much evidence of how the port has been stored but I suspect it's been kept upright in its original cardboard box which is how they were auctioned. The labels are all near perfect. The bottles seem to have plastic covers on, which are all in perfect condition. There's no evidence of any seepage (but then the've probably been stored upright). The levels all look to be above the bottom of the neck, mostly 1 to 2cm above.

However... One has dropped its cork into the wine, two others show signs that the cork has slipped down a centimetre or two. I will try to post some photos when I work out how.

So the the questions I have which some of you may be able to help with are:

1. What to do with the dropped cork? Leave it? Open the bottle and drink now? (would prefer not as waiting for suitable family celebrations). Re-cork it?
2. What about the two with slightly dropped corks?
3. Should I continue to store all the bottles upright or lay them down now? (Or just lay down the ones where the cork hasn't slipped?)
4. I have a Swisscave wine cabinet - I presume they should be stored in there, regardless of how they've been stored to date?

Sorry that's a lot of questions - any advice would be very gratefully received. Many thanks.

Steve

[Steve Veness]

Hopefully here's some links to a few pictures:

The 12 bottles https://imgur.com/Ly3YQyU

The bottled with the dropped cork https://imgur.com/JJO4wIN

One of the two partially dropped corks (not very clear from photo, sorry) https://imgur.com/oWZPuxp

Thanks!

[jdaw1]

1. What to do with the dropped cork? Leave it? Open the bottle and drink now?

The cork might have dropped recently, or might have dropped ages ago. Absence of seepage suggests recently. The capsule can be mostly airtight, but likely as not is leaking oxygen.

Drink now. Consider it a trial bottle. If it’s good, that bodes really well for the others.

[DRT]

I had some bottles of this about a decade ago and at least one had a cork that had dropped into the wine. From memory it was still fabulous and not significantly different to the others. Those hard plastic capsules seem to form an airtight seal, particularly some wine has leaked above the cork and then dried/hardened between the glass and the plastic. I suspect they will be fine.

[Steve Veness]

Here are the 12 bottles of Croft 63:

The 12 bottles

uv6QgxYERhGi0e7LVeltag.jpeg (127.4 KiB) Viewed 3613 times

I'm still very keen to get suggestions on these four questions (tbf I have had some suggestions for 1. - thanks!)

1. What to do with the dropped cork? Leave it? Open the bottle and drink now? (would prefer not as waiting for suitable family celebrations). Re-cork it?
2. What about the two with slightly dropped corks?
3. Should I continue to store all the bottles upright or lay them down now? (Or just lay down the ones where the cork hasn't slipped?)
4. I have a Swisscave wine cabinet - I presume they should be stored in there, regardless of how they've been stored to date?

[Andy Velebil]

1- Open asap
2-put those to the front of the line to drink second and third (after the dropped cork bottle)
3-Does not matter, inside the bottle is 100% humidity.
4-Correct presumption.

[Steve Veness]

Great, thanks Andy!

[Steve Veness]

Still struggling to post photos - probably redundant anyway since I guess you all know what a dropped cork looks like. But here's one of the two partially dropped cork bottles:

Partially dropped cork

wbq30LY6Qme98YNd%gYIig.jpeg (82.75 KiB) Viewed 3604 times

[Steve Veness]

And here's the fully dropped cork bottle:

Dropped cork

bAMnwhYYQPahhvx22PFW3w.jpeg (88.88 KiB) Viewed 3603 times

[Andy Velebil]

The other two have basically completely dropped but at least the one looks like it sorta sealed itself a little at the bottom where it got stuck.

Based on the pics those three should be consumed in the very near future. Like this holiday season.

[uncle tom]

OK Steve - panic ye not!

This is a very common issue with this particular bottling. Essentially the plastic seals were too good and the necks too straight. As the cork ages, it shrinks a little - sometimes the corks drop.

Don't worry - the wine is absolutely fine. After about 40 years, wine completes its' saturation through a cork, at which point the wine fully knows the cork and vice versa - it has nothing to fear from the cork dropping.

It's probably a good idea to open your dropped cork bottles first - but no desperate need on those grounds alone. When decanting a bottle with a dropped cork, have a chopstick handy - put the thin end into the neck to stop the floating cork causing an obstruction as you decant.

- Enjoy!

[Steve Veness]

Thank you all so much for your comments and advice! Much appreciated.

I have gingerly laid the dropped cork bottles on their side to check that they are not seeping at all and will check them every day for a few days but so far they seem not to be weeping at all.

I have a feeling this could be the start of an enjoyable, if rather expensive, retirement hobby!

What to invest in next? I already have a dozen half bottles of Croft, Quinta da Roeda 2018 en primeur on order from the Wine Society. I have literally no idea what they will be like or how they will compare with the Croft 63!

Thanks again.

[JacobH]

It’s a great hobby. Especially since there are many way of enjoying it. I find the history of the industry fascinating and also love travelling to Porto and the Douro valley to visit the vineyards.

The 2018 Croft Quinta da Roêda will be a good wine to compare to the 1963 Croft. It’s from a single vineyard: Quinta da Roêda which, presumably, will also have been a major component of the 1963 vintage port blend, although the 1963 will have some other wines too. It will have been made in the same way as a fully vintage port. The big difference will be that it is right at the start of if it maturation process whereas the 1963 is now full mature. So the 2018 should be very dark with lots of fruit, tannins and acidity whereas the 1963 should be much lighter in colour with its fruit having developed into something lovely. In the past it was generally recommended not to drink vintage port young but I think recent vintages are much more approachable due to improvements in the wine making which means they don’t need years in the bottle for the rawness to subside.

If you don’t have much experience of Port, generally, I’d suggest trying some of the different categories to see what you like. On the tawny front, I’d go straight for a 20-year-old. I quite like the Churchill, Ramos Pinto and, if you can find it, the Kranemann (which is utterly spectacular). Of the supermarket ones, I’m not a big fan of the Graham or the Fonseca 20 year old tawnies but the Taylor is pretty decent.

Also I’d try both a filtered and unfiltered LBVs. The 2015 Graham’s LBV is the best filtered that has been produced for many years. I’d probably also pick up an unfiltered Warre LBV since they are readily available at supermarkets often at a discount.

Finally, I’d also try some middle-aged Single-Quinta vintage ports. Something like the 2004 Croft Quinta da Roêda might be fun. Or something like a Taylor Quinta de Vargellas or Graham’s Quinta dos Malvedos from the early 2000s which should be quite widely available.

[uncle tom]

What to invest in next?

In the present market, vintage port tends to go nowhere in price for about two decades after vintage but then starts to climb in price. The best vintages to buy at the moment are therefore '97/'00/'03. Buy mainly at auction rather than from wine merchants - while some merchants like to foster the myth that they hold magical stocks in dusty cellars for decades, the reality is rather more mundane. Buying at auction cuts out the middle man..

[PhilW]

Hi Steve; echoing what others have said, hopefully the wine should still be ok in all the bottles, but this will depend on the reason for the dropped corks. One extra check I would perform which I don't think has been mentioned yet is to take a torch and shine it through the body of the bottles (rather than the neck) and check the wine colour, and in particular to see if the wine in the dropped cork bottles is the same colour or different to the non-drop bottles (which are hopefully a deep or medium red). If they are lighter or have lost their red/pink and are more orange/yellow then this would indicate likely oxidation (still fine to drink, but not how it should be).

Hopefully if you check they'll all be a good medium red and the cork-drop may not have affected them, though personally I would NOT lie the cork-dropped bottles down, I would keep them upright, and drink them first; any further doubt I would also open one of them at an early opportunity.

[PhilW]

I have a feeling this could be the start of an enjoyable, if rather expensive, retirement hobby!

What to invest in next?

Welcome to TPF - your question is essentially the same as mine was on joining the forum 10 years ago. Their answer to me then would still apply in non-Covid times, but depends on your location. TPF has (had pre-covid, and hopefully will again) frequent meetings in London where each attendee brings a bottle according to a theme (which might just be something like "bring a bottle from the 80s"). If you're interested and able to join for such sessions, I guarantee that it is an excellent way to try a range of ports and find out what you like, as well as to make good friends.

[Steve Veness]

As suggested by PhilW I tried shining a torch through the bottles which was instructive but hard to photo. So I took a photo with the afternoon sun coming through the bottle (each bottle was only in the sun for a few seconds). The composite photo of all 12 bottles is here:

Port bottles med.jpeg (269.99 KiB) Viewed 3525 times

Bottle 1 is the one with the dropped cork, as you can see. Bottles 2 and 4 also have slightly dropped corks. I was surprised they are all relatively pale (compared with ordinary port I am used to) but the photos make them look paler than they appear to the eye.

Bottle 10 is the one that looks a clearly different colour; 3, 7, 8, 11 and 12 are all a vibrant cherry red; 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and 9 are all slightly less vibrant.

I guess I will have to try one of them at some point but will probably wait until I can share a bottle with friends closer to Christmas.

Thanks everyone for all the help once again.

PS I find I have a bottle of Warre's Quinta da Cavadinha 2007 in my wine store.

[PhilW]

Good job with the pics; as you say it's sometimes not easy capturing the torch shining through, and the pics aren't always representative as the camera can do interesting effects with white balance and colour adjustments.

From the pics above and as you've indicated, 3, 7, 8, 11 and 12 all look good; after that I would suggest 5 and 6 look slightly affected but should taste reasonable; but 1, 2, 4, and 9 have been strongly affected and 10 heavily; these bottles will be drinkable, but are likely to taste very different from the good bottles, as it looks like have significantly oxidised, and will likely taste more like a middling tawny than a vintage port.

[Steve Veness]

Thanks once again for your input Phil.

By your assessment that will make the good half a dozen or so bottles rather expensive but hey, it's a learning experience. And if the others are drinkable there is still the interest of drinking something that's nearly 60 years old. So I shall enjoy and share them over the next dozen or so years.

Many thanks all.

[jdaw1]

Great photo work.

[JacobH]

Great photo work.

Absolutely. I wonder how a case of 12 bottles of 1963 VP would compare without the cork issue? I bet there would still be a lot of bottle variation.

[Steve Veness]

Great photo work.

Absolutely. I wonder how a case of 12 bottles of 1963 VP would compare without the cork issue? I bet there would still be a lot of bottle variation.

Yes that would be interesting. If I had another case, I'd take the photos!

[JacobH]

Great photo work.

Absolutely. I wonder how a case of 12 bottles of 1963 VP would compare without the cork issue? I bet there would still be a lot of bottle variation.

Yes that would be interesting. If I had another case, I'd take the photos!

I think we all know what the answer to this problem is.

[MigSU]

Nice photos!