Oldest bottles

[TLW]

The oldest port was 1950 Cockburn - very difficult to recommend.

The oldest madeira was an 1815 - which was very, very good - although I think the 1863 solera to be possibly the most enjoyable drink I have ever had - still have one bottle left, and am waiting for some special occasion to drink it. Typically, I only drink on days that end in "y", but the last madeira may require a slightly higher standard.

[g-man]

I believe you were going to a madiera tastin ghte next day, this was the day you were leaving ny and i brought the 1924 Taylor

So on Tuesday 7^th July 2009? If so, that was a Soviet 1936 Lividia.

No it was a 1700 madeira for sure

the lividia was taken home and drunk the next mornign with breakfast

[djewesbury]

Right. Enough Oscar.
I'm interested in and know little about madeira. I wonder, if it is so stable, does an old vintage ever actually 'improve' in bottle - and is there much point in keeping it? Might it not be as good today as it will be in 50 years (in which case, drink it today)?

[Roy Hersh]

In documents I've read and discussions I've been a part of, 1820 has been the date most often mentioned for the broad practice of fortification with Port wine.

As for oldest bottles tasted: 1802 Colheita, 1815 for Vintage Port and 1748 for Madeira.

This year I was a shown a true 1756 Vintage Port. My photo of it went on FB.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Right. Enough Oscar.
I'm interested in and know little about madeira. I wonder, if it is so stable, does an old vintage ever actually 'improve' in bottle - and is there much point in keeping it? Might it not be as good today as it will be in 50 years (in which case, drink it today)?

Madeira is pretty stable stuff, virtually pasteurized before being ready for drinking. Made the old fashioned way it was shaken and buffetted in barrel, exposed to tropical temperatures and humidity and exposed to whatever air leached in through the wood of the barrel. The result is that you have a wine which is exceedingly robust and quite capable of lasting centuries in the bottle. Whether it improves or not, I have no idea. Perhaps in 50 years I will get to try another bottle of 1792 Bual and I will let you know. What I can say is that old Madeira which has been in the bottle for many decades can be very drinkable. My taste is definitely at the mid-sweeter end of the Madeira spectrum - I rarely enjoy a Verdelho or Sercial and sometimes find a Malvasia too sweet. Bual seems to be generally where my tastebuds lie.

Oldest wine I have ever drunk knowing the identity was the 1792 Blandy's Bual. Oldest Port were the two 1815s that Julian has mentioned.

I did once own a bottle of something that tasted like Curacao which was in a very odd hand-blown bottle that had a fairly squat barrel and long, slender neck. This was purported to have once been in the Musuem of the distillers Humphrey, Taylor & Co and was sealed with a wax sealed, driven cork on which the number "1700" had been stamped. Whether this was a vintage date (or distillation date) I will never know. It was very thick and concentrated in flavour, sweet but bitter and full of powerful orange flavours. I'm pretty sure it wasn't table wine, Port or Madeira but don't really know what that was. If it was from 1700 it was the oldest thing I have ever drunk.

And the oldest bottle of port I have seen was from 1790. A bottle was offered in an auction in Denmark 2-3 years ago (I didn't bid for it).

[LGTrotter]

Right. Enough Oscar.
I'm interested in and know little about madeira. I wonder, if it is so stable, does an old vintage ever actually 'improve' in bottle - and is there much point in keeping it? Might it not be as good today as it will be in 50 years (in which case, drink it today)?

I do not think that it improves much in bottles. Sorry to quote someone else but I think it sums it up beautifully;
' "And yet" said Chestnut "Madeira is never good in England. Is it climate or do they not know how to keep it?"
"Both, both" returned Wilmington. "They bottle all wines and that is simply fatal. Madeira was never meant to be retailed. It improves in its own society. As greatness is apt to do." Silas Weir Mitchell, 'The Madeira party'.

The point being that Madeira improves in barrel and to a lesser extent in large demijohns, rather than in bottles. I am not sure it declines much but others report that it can become rather 'dumb' with a long time in bottle hence the reccomendation, which I can support, of decanting wines which have been in bottle for a long time for about a week.

The next few lines of the book are a suggestion that port keeps better in five gallon demijohns.

[jdaw1]

Oldest Port were the two 1815s that Julian has mentioned.

Were they fortified?

[marc j.]

The oldest vintage port would a 1830 Ferreira. In terms of Colheitas, the oldest would be a 1875 A.J.S. Da Silva.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Oldest Port were the two 1815s that Julian has mentioned.

Were they fortified?

I believe they were.

[Axel P]

I believe that the question should rather be "What is the oldest Port that you much enjoyed despite the age?".

My "best-to-enjoy" window however is more on the 1912-1970 side. Maybe not as impressive from the age, but even more from the taste. I know that there are some good to exciting 1908s and 1904s and even 1900s on the market, but many of those have actually passed their prime.

The somewhat 25 Ports I had from the 19th century were all very drinkeable, but most of them a bit tired. The ones who weren't might have been pepped up a bit, I believe.

Just my two cents on this.

Axel

[djewesbury]

Thanks Axel. Very good points I think.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I believe that the question should rather be "What is the oldest Port that you much enjoyed despite the age?"

The oldest vintage ports I would be confident of enjoying would be from the 1908 and 1912 vintages. Older than this my experience is that I would expect them to be lighter and fading or faded. I have had exceptions; Tom's unknown 1851 at the last Christmas offline being a good example.