Time for a TN sort?

Make suggestions and report problems.
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

JacobH wrote:This is a bit of a problem. Essentially, if someone posts ‟Sandeman Ruby (bottled 2010)” then, I agree, it might make sense for it to be listed without a date, rather than with one. However, if someone posts ‟Sandeman Ruby (bottled 1910)” then there is a strong argument that that should be listed with its date, since it’s the date that makes it interesting. Also a review of a 1910 Ruby is not going to be of much use to someone looking for notes on a recently purchased bottle.

I suppose, as a compromise, I could kill the bottling dates if they are more recent, so only those which have a significant time in the bottle appear. Looking at what we have at the moment, there aren’t any non-vintage Ports with bottling dates in the 1990s, 2000 or 2001 on the list, so we could start killing the dates from 2002 onwards, or have it on a rolling basis starting a decade ago.
I hadn't realised it was deliberate placement, in which case I am happy.

However, to pick up on the points you have raised, perhaps one way to keep people happy would be to sub-categorise the NV heading. In other words, you could have:
NV
Sandeman 20 year old tawny
Bottled 2002
Bottled 2003
Bottled 2004
etc.

That way, if someone has tasted an old bottling (such as the 3* Sandeman Ruby that was estimated to have been bottled in the 1930s that Derek opened a few years ago), people can find it easily - just look up Sandeman Ruby. But the primary location would be NV port - since that's what it is.

The suggestion that I have made could also be applied to colheitas which have multiple bottling dates.
1978
Niepoort colheita
Bottled 1985
Bottled 1996
Bottled 2008

Or am I now making too much work? (In which case, put my idea in the "good idea, but impractical" basket.)
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
JacobH
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3300
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by JacobH »

My previous laptop died a little while ago and I am currently borrowing a MacBook, which doesn’t have the various pieces of software on it to generate the index. Therefore, apologies for the hiatus in updating. I’ll try to update it again once my new one arrives in the next couple of weeks.
Image
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Any chance of a tasting note update please?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I'm now up to date with my tasting notes. Is there any chance of an update to the TN index?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
JacobH
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3300
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by JacobH »

Yes. I am afraid there are two problems. Firstly, I have been hopeless. Secondly, I lost the most recent version of the code. I do have a backup but it will require some work. I am starting on the process now.

Considering my incompetence, it strikes me I need to work on automating the system. But one stage at a time.
Image
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1851
Posts: 23613
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by jdaw1 »

Jacob, welcome back.
User avatar
JacobH
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3300
Joined: 16:37 Sat 03 May 2008
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by JacobH »

Thank you. I now have most of the code working, including some improvements to make it more automatic.
Image
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Did we get a TN sort organised?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

AHB wrote:Did we get a TN sort organised?
Unfortunately not. We need a new plan.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

A new plan has been hatched but it will take a while before someone much more clever than I can implement it.

As the existing index had not been updated for 13 months I have replaced it with a very basic temporary listing which can easily be kept up to date until the new Tasting Note Magnetron Accelerator is ready for launch.

As you will see when you view the index there are a number of formatting issues with some of the thread descriptions. I will attempt to resolve those over the coming weeks.

Your continued patience is appreciated.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

Your attention is drawn to the new version of the TN Title Format guidelines.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

DRT wrote:a very basic temporary listing which can easily be kept up to date until the new Tasting Note Magnetron Accelerator is ready for launch.
Slightly better presentation of the temporary solution has now been implemented.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

Could those people who use the Tasting Note section please take a look at the new tasting note index and provide feedback here as to whether or not it meets your needs?

Given the numerous issues we have had with maintaining more complex versions of the index in the past I am very keen to keep things as simple as possible this time whilst still wanting to provide an index which is fit for purpose. The index that exists today can be updated in approximately 10 minutes with very little work and no trickery. However it does require strict application of the new TN Title Format to ensure entries end up at least roughly in the correct place in the index. I am happy to put in the work to keep the thread title data clean provided the index gives you what you need.

Thanks
Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

Lots of cleaning up of the code tonight thanks to help from jdaw1.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

The tasting note index now has a search function.

Please give it a go and report any issues here.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Time for a TN sort?

Post by djewesbury »

DRT wrote:The tasting note index now has a search function.

Please give it a go and report any issues here.
Very nice! Is the index fully self-updating now?
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Nice approach and great to have an updated TN listing. I have a couple of requests of which one should be easy and one I have no idea whether it is easy or not:

(1) Could you please put a key at the top of the page as to what the daggers and double daggers represent.
(2) When you do a search (eg on the shipper Ferreira), is it easy to have the results shown in vintage date order? If so, could this be done?

Thanks.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:The tasting note index now has a search function.

Please give it a go and report any issues here.
Very nice! Is the index fully self-updating now?
The search function goes directly to the database so will always be up to date. The listing on the index page needs to be updated manually, but takes about 2 minutes to do.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

AHB wrote:(1) Could you please put a key at the top of the page as to what the daggers and double daggers represent.
Will do. There was a debate about whether or not these were sufficiently intuitive. You have answered the question :wink:
AHB wrote:(2) When you do a search (eg on the shipper Ferreira), is it easy to have the results shown in vintage date order? If so, could this be done?
This is more difficult, and perhaps impossible. The search function passes the input values into a standard phpBB forum "Advanced search" function with some of the advanced settings pre-selected. By default phpBB displays forum postings in reverse chronological order using the date of the last post in each thread. I do not know how to alter that behaviour. Perhaps this is a good reason to have both the search option and the static listing?

Thanks to you and djewesbury for the feedback and suggestions.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
benread
Niepoort 1977
Posts: 1555
Joined: 21:36 Thu 17 Apr 2008
Location: Reigate, Surrey
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by benread »

DRT wrote:The tasting note index now has a search function.

Please give it a go and report any issues here.
Brilliant! Does exactly what I want and I love the fact I can also search within the results.
Ben
-------
Vintage 1970 and now proud owner of my first ever 'half-century'!
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

benread wrote:Brilliant! Does exactly what I want and I love the fact I can also search within the results.
Thanks, Ben. You will have to thank the guys at phpBB for the search within a search as that is simply part of the standard software. All I did was get you to the right page to be able to use it :wink:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

Interestingly, phpBB searches don't seem to be fans of Dow. When you search for a vintage + "Dow" using either the new TN Index search or the standard advanced search in the forum it returns every TN from the vintage, not just Dow. Perhaps it likes at least four letters to perform an accurate search?

For those interested, the parameters used in the advanced search to have TNs displayed as they are when you search through the new TN Index function are:
  • Search for keywords: Search for all terms or use query as entered;
  • Search in forums: Port tasting notes;
  • Search within: Topic titles only;
  • Display results as: Topics;
  • Return first: 0 characters of posts.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15779
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by DRT »

Added:
TN Index wrote: Tip: You can enter Tawny, Ruby, Reserve, Crusted, Garrafeira etc. in the vintage field to search for non-vintage ports.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8165
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Time for a TN sort?

Post by djewesbury »

benread wrote:
DRT wrote:The tasting note index now has a search function.

Please give it a go and report any issues here.
Brilliant! Does exactly what I want and I love the fact I can also search within the results.
+1.
The question of it ordering results by post date rather than vintage hadn't struck me, as I would generally search for a particular wine of a particular year (perhaps before standing it up in the cellar). I wouldn't expend too much energy finding a way to make it produce these vintage-ordered results just for the occasional port wonk who wants to see every tasting note for Constantino...! :wink:
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...
User avatar
Alex Bridgeman
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14880
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Time for a TN sort?

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

DRT wrote:
AHB wrote:(1) Could you please put a key at the top of the page as to what the daggers and double daggers represent.
Will do. There was a debate about whether or not these were sufficiently intuitive. You have answered the question :wink:
I have never claimed to be intuitive - and I still don't know what these represent!
DRT wrote:
AHB wrote:(2) When you do a search (eg on the shipper Ferreira), is it easy to have the results shown in vintage date order? If so, could this be done?
This is more difficult, and perhaps impossible. The search function passes the input values into a standard phpBB forum "Advanced search" function with some of the advanced settings pre-selected. By default phpBB displays forum postings in reverse chronological order using the date of the last post in each thread. I do not know how to alter that behaviour. Perhaps this is a good reason to have both the search option and the static listing?
Perhaps there could be a shipper ordered static listing? I have no idea how phpBB code works, but perhaps you can chop the first 5 (year) or 3 (NV) characters from the titles and stitch them back at the end of the title and then create the listing from that?
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Post Reply