Some interesting stuff on wiki
...particularly the caveat from the IOC
Beijing 2008
Re: Beijing 2008
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: Beijing 2008
To be honest, that's hard to say one way or the other since total medals and gold medals have been equivalent sorting algorithms since the 80s. My recollection from watching is that total medals was always what the newscasts were talking about, but my recollection is not what it used to be. 
Edit: oh good, so my recollection is in line with that wiki article. Why doesn't that make me feel comfortable?
True - weighting by popularity would probably be more "accurate" than weighting by historical longevity. That may be difficult to determine for some events, though, unless you count qualification rounds as well. For example, you can't just bring a soccer (er... football) team to the Olympics, your country must qualify first. Which brings up the fact that team sports have fewer entrants than individual sports, so would number of countries entered be better than total number of entrants?
I don't buy the "upper class sport" argument for the simple reason that if a country wants to specialize in something then they're going to do well regardless of the sport (*cough* Jamaica *cough*). The Aussies concentrate on (and do very well in) swimming... but that's their choice. You can't tell me that they wouldn't be good at Equestrian if they put their minds to it. They have a grand history of riding horses just like the US... but they choose to focus their funds on swimming.
I don't buy the multiple event argument either because winning golds in multiple events is insanely difficult. I am a former competitive swimmer (though never of any consequence) and at least in swimming the four strokes require surprisingly different techniques. Michael Phelps is a freak of nature... he makes it look easy. But the different strokes in swimming are, to me, at least as different as the 100 meter dash compared to the 110 meter hurdles.
Ultimately, there may be multiple equally valid winners. After all, the Olympics recognizes both "most gold medals won" and "most medals won" when discussing the greatest Olympians of all time. Or at least they have until now... Michael Phelps is in the process of making that distinction irrelevant, too.
Though, interestingly, many mark Michael Phelps down because he has only competed in 2 Olympics (he was an alternate in 2000) as if that somehow makes his total medal haul less impressive.
Edit: oh good, so my recollection is in line with that wiki article. Why doesn't that make me feel comfortable?
True - weighting by popularity would probably be more "accurate" than weighting by historical longevity. That may be difficult to determine for some events, though, unless you count qualification rounds as well. For example, you can't just bring a soccer (er... football) team to the Olympics, your country must qualify first. Which brings up the fact that team sports have fewer entrants than individual sports, so would number of countries entered be better than total number of entrants?
I don't buy the "upper class sport" argument for the simple reason that if a country wants to specialize in something then they're going to do well regardless of the sport (*cough* Jamaica *cough*). The Aussies concentrate on (and do very well in) swimming... but that's their choice. You can't tell me that they wouldn't be good at Equestrian if they put their minds to it. They have a grand history of riding horses just like the US... but they choose to focus their funds on swimming.
I don't buy the multiple event argument either because winning golds in multiple events is insanely difficult. I am a former competitive swimmer (though never of any consequence) and at least in swimming the four strokes require surprisingly different techniques. Michael Phelps is a freak of nature... he makes it look easy. But the different strokes in swimming are, to me, at least as different as the 100 meter dash compared to the 110 meter hurdles.
Ultimately, there may be multiple equally valid winners. After all, the Olympics recognizes both "most gold medals won" and "most medals won" when discussing the greatest Olympians of all time. Or at least they have until now... Michael Phelps is in the process of making that distinction irrelevant, too.
Though, interestingly, many mark Michael Phelps down because he has only competed in 2 Olympics (he was an alternate in 2000) as if that somehow makes his total medal haul less impressive.Glenn Elliott
Re: Beijing 2008
Glenn,
Our views are not far apart. I was throwing in some stuff simply because it is all out there to debate.
I entirely agree with the Phelps thing. Here in the UK we had your Michael Jordan telling us every day that winning 8 gold medals in the pool was easier than winning one on the track. Nonsense! If it was that easy, why has no-one done it before now? Why don't we always have a Phelps at each Olympics who cleans up in every event they enter? It doesn't happen because it is near impossible to achieve.
One thing I do agree with is that Phelps needs to come back again and win more to be hailed as one of the all time greats. For me, athletes who have won multiple golds over multiple games get more credit than those who peak once or twice and clean up.
And don't be bitter about Mr Bolt and his Jamacan chums. Your guys have had it too easy for decades and now a small nation has come along and raised the bar. It's time to step up to the plate
Our views are not far apart. I was throwing in some stuff simply because it is all out there to debate.
I entirely agree with the Phelps thing. Here in the UK we had your Michael Jordan telling us every day that winning 8 gold medals in the pool was easier than winning one on the track. Nonsense! If it was that easy, why has no-one done it before now? Why don't we always have a Phelps at each Olympics who cleans up in every event they enter? It doesn't happen because it is near impossible to achieve.
One thing I do agree with is that Phelps needs to come back again and win more to be hailed as one of the all time greats. For me, athletes who have won multiple golds over multiple games get more credit than those who peak once or twice and clean up.
And don't be bitter about Mr Bolt and his Jamacan chums. Your guys have had it too easy for decades and now a small nation has come along and raised the bar. It's time to step up to the plate
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: Beijing 2008
I'm only upset about Usain Bolt because of how he finished the 100. I thought it was classless, and I feel robbed because now we'll never know how fast he could have gone. 9.65? 9.63? Could he have broken 9.6?
As it stands now, his antics prevent him from being able to say that he ran the fastest 100 ever. Tyson Gay still holds that honor, though since it was wind aided Usain Bolt holds the world record.
As it stands now, his antics prevent him from being able to say that he ran the fastest 100 ever. Tyson Gay still holds that honor, though since it was wind aided Usain Bolt holds the world record.
Glenn Elliott
Re: Beijing 2008
If you want to see someone running 100m in less than 9.6s just tell Todd P that there's a bottle of Fonseca 63 at the end of his road 
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: Beijing 2008
I already tried to bribe him into coming to Seattle with a 1970 Noval Nacional!
Though, sadly, it turns out the store accidentally accepted duplicate orders for the bottles so we won't be getting ours.
I do have a 1963 Fonseca on order though... maybe he'll come visit if I throw in a 1985 Fonseca too?
Though, sadly, it turns out the store accidentally accepted duplicate orders for the bottles so we won't be getting ours.
I do have a 1963 Fonseca on order though... maybe he'll come visit if I throw in a 1985 Fonseca too?
Glenn Elliott
Re: Beijing 2008
An alumni publication wrote:More than 30 countries around the world are lagging behind the University of Cambridge on the Olympics medal front.
Out of the ten Team GB athletes who either study at or have graduated from Cambridge, the University has racked up a stunning tally of one Gold medal, four Silver and one Bronze.
In fact, Cambridge's Trinity Hall alone can lay claim to a better haul of Olympic medals than India, Portugal and South Africa - to name just a few - after graduates Emma Pooley and Tom James claimed Silver and Gold respectively in Beijing.
Re: Beijing 2008
What we want to know is : If Usain Bolt grew up drinking VP versus Jamaican Rhum , would Todd be able to run the 100m in less than 10 sec. If a bottle of NN '31 was at the finish line ?