Suggestion for a tasting

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 04:41 Thu 22 May 2008

I'm curious about a colheita vs. tawny of the same age tasting.

To answer the age old question, is it better to age in barrel or bottle. (natural assumption is the barrel since bigger bottles of wine usually hold better then smaller bottles).

How about a few 20 yr tawnies vs. a few colheitas from the 70s-80s ?

benread · Post by **benread** » 06:12 Thu 22 May 2008

As someone who has never tasted a colheita I would be very interested! I am comtemplating finding one soon to try anyway.

Post by **DRT** » 09:07 Thu 22 May 2008

g-man wrote:I'm curious about a colheita vs. tawny of the same age tasting.

To answer the age old question, is it better to age in barrel or bottle. (natural assumption is the barrel since bigger bottles of wine usually hold better then smaller bottles).

How about a few 20 yr tawnies vs. a few colheitas from the 70s-80s ?

g-man,

Both Colheita and Tawny are aged in wood...but I think it's a fine idea for a tasting.

Derek

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 15:03 Thu 22 May 2008

I thought tawny's were aged for 20 years in barrel and then bottled,

compared to colheitas which were aged 3-5 years in barrel and then bottled to be aged in bottle for x years.

Post by **DRT** » 15:59 Thu 22 May 2008

g-man wrote:I thought tawny's were aged for 20 years in barrel and then bottled,

compared to colheitas which were aged 3-5 years in barrel and then bottled to be aged in bottle for x years.

No, Colheita is aged in barrel for a minimum of 7 (or is it 5?) years and then bottled ready to drink. I think all Colheita is filtered prior to bottling which means it will not "age" in the bottle in the way an unfiltered wine would.

Aged Tawny and Colheita are produced using the same process except for the fact that an Aged tawny is made from a blend from more than one vintage and a Colheita is a blend or a single wine from just one vintage.

I think you might be thinking of Garrafeira, which is aged in wood for 7 years then in large glass bottles for 7+ years then "decanted" unfiltered into 750ml bottles to age further.

derek

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 16:06 Thu 22 May 2008

g-man wrote:I thought tawny's were aged for 20 years in barrel and then bottled,

compared to colheitas which were aged 3-5 years in barrel and then bottled to be aged in bottle for x years.

Inexpensive tawny's and Ruby's typically are between 3-5 years of age when bottled. Colheita's require a minimum of 7 years of age before bottling.

Colheita's typically aren't bottled young as they need time in wood barrels (typically 550 liters) to take on that oxidative quality.

Tawny with an indication of age (10,20,30,more than 40) is a blend of many colheita's where the approximate age of all those colheita's used is 10,20,30, or more than 40 years. So for example....in a 40 year tawny port there can be colheita's from 1925, 1950, 1980, 1998 all blended to gether and the average age is "more than 40 years".

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 16:45 Thu 22 May 2008

ADV wrote: Tawny with an indication of age (10,20,30,more than 40) is a blend of many colheita's where the approximate age of all those colheita's used is 10,20,30, or more than 40 years. So for example....in a 40 year tawny port there can be colheita's from 1925, 1950, 1980, 1998 all blended to gether and the average age is "more than 40 years".

Now THAT would be a damn cool experiment.

Take a Taylor 20 and get a whole bunch of taylor colheitas and see if we can blend a 20 yr tawny!!

Joost · Post by **Joost** » 17:01 Thu 22 May 2008

I don't think there are any Taylor Colheita's... But the idea is great...

In my experience colheita performs one and a half times as old as a aged tawny. For example a 7 year old colheita (2001, bottled in 2008) performs more or less like an 10 year old Tawny. And 20 year old colheita (1987 , bottled in 2007) is similar in style like a 30 years old... So this is my hypothese, but of course the proof is in the pudding...

Derek, I agree, I am quit sure Colheita is at least 7 years...

Santé,
Joost

JacobH · Post by **JacobH** » 17:15 Thu 22 May 2008

Joost wrote: In my experience colheita performs one and a half times as old as a aged tawny. For example a 7 year old colheita (2001, bottled in 2008) performs more or less like an 10 year old Tawny. And 20 year old colheita (1987 , bottled in 2007) is similar in style like a 30 years old... So this is my hypothese, but of course the proof is in the pudding...

I wonder how far you could push that back in time. Would that 1790 bottle which turned up recently taste like like a 300-year-old tawny?

Does anyone know what the effect of bottle maturing on a tawny/colheita is? I know that they are supposed to be drunk soon after bottling but if one has, for instance, a 20-year-old bottle of 10-year-old Tawny, how will it compare to a fresh bottle?

-Jacob

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 17:40 Thu 22 May 2008

JacobH wrote:
Joost wrote:
Does anyone know what the effect of bottle maturing on a tawny/colheita is? I know that they are supposed to be drunk soon after bottling but if one has, for instance, a 20-year-old bottle of 10-year-old Tawny, how will it compare to a fresh bottle?

-Jacob

Well, it depends on who you talk to. Some producer's say that a Colheita will age in bottle and some say its best to drink them closest to the date of bottling. So no hard fast rule there. Personally I think the younger Colheita's will age in bottle for some time. However, the really old ones arn't going to get much better at that point, so no reason to age them in bottle. But that is just my personal opinion...

Tawny's with an indication of age: I've yet to hear from a producer that says its good to age these. All have said its best to drink closest to the date of bottlings. These tawny's are made (blended) into a "House style" so that when you get one this year and one next year they will taste pretty much the same. They are not ment to age and heavly filtered so aging in bottle is rather worthless.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 18:01 Thu 22 May 2008

ADV wrote: Well, it depends on who you talk to. Some producer's say that a Colheita will age in bottle and some say its best to drink them closest to the date of bottling. So no hard fast rule there. Personally I think the younger Colheita's will age in bottle for some time. However, the really old ones arn't going to get much better at that point, so no reason to age them in bottle. But that is just my personal opinion...

We had a 68 Offley Colheita that was bottled in 80 something .. Julian described it as weird. It was incredibly brownish puke color that the pics will show you but it didn't taste that bad =) ... Was like drinking Fortified Ice tea.

benread · Post by **benread** » 18:22 Thu 22 May 2008

[quote="ADV] Personally I think the younger Colheita's will age in bottle for some time. However, the really old ones arn't going to get much better at that point, so no reason to age them in bottle. But that is just my personal opinion...
[/quote]

What would you define as "really old ones"? Just curious as I may have a couple in my sights and this would be the excuse to tuck in soon!

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 18:27 Thu 22 May 2008

What would you define as "really old ones"?

I would say anything about 40-50+ years old.

SushiNorth · Post by **SushiNorth** » 18:36 Thu 22 May 2008

Hm, i picked up a birth-year colheita (Quinta do Noval 74) but i never even considered what year it was bottled. I'll have to go check.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 18:45 Thu 22 May 2008

SushiNorth wrote:Hm, i picked up a birth-year colheita (Quinta do Noval 74) but i never even considered what year it was bottled. I'll have to go check.

That was one of the finest colheitas I've ever had!

I'll bring the Noval 40 yr tawny <wink>

SushiNorth · Post by **SushiNorth** » 19:05 Thu 22 May 2008

Bottled in 2003. Definitely filtered, and through the glass it showed a lovely coloration

I also discovered a Taylor LBV 2000 while poking around, checked the humidifier levels (a few cups of water heheh) and confirmed no leaky bottles, just a hint of that lovely aged fruit smell in there. I need to seal in the wine racks (which were supposed to be "not-port" but are now half port) one of these days.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 19:28 Thu 22 May 2008

SushiNorth wrote: just a hint of that lovely aged fruit smell in there.

That my friend, is a leaky bottle.

I'd checked the caps for stickiness.

SushiNorth · Post by **SushiNorth** » 19:37 Thu 22 May 2008

g-man wrote:
SushiNorth wrote: just a hint of that lovely aged fruit smell in there.
That my friend, is a leaky bottle. I'd checked the caps for stickiness.

That's what I thought when I first smelled it a few years ago, but none of the bottles are leaking. There's always a small amount of diffusion through the cork, and I think that's what it is.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 20:36 Thu 22 May 2008

SushiNorth wrote:
g-man wrote:
SushiNorth wrote: just a hint of that lovely aged fruit smell in there.
That my friend, is a leaky bottle. I'd checked the caps for stickiness.
That's what I thought when I first smelled it a few years ago, but none of the bottles are leaking. There's always a small amount of diffusion through the cork, and I think that's what it is.

A perfect cork should be nigh impermeable. The seepage should be less then 1 mm a year and probably not significant enough for you to smell lovely aged fruit. (unless you're talking about that nice slightly woody smell of a humidified wooden case, love that smell) You'd probably have one bottle that may have leaked. Try sniffing each of the capsules and see how sweet they smell. There should not be much smell if the cork is intact

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 23:41 Fri 23 May 2008

benread wrote:As someone who has never tasted a colheita I would be very interested! I am comtemplating finding one soon to try anyway.

Laithwaites do a really nice Andresen 1982 Colheita for about £24 a bottle - it comes recommended from the couple of bottles that I drank around Christmas

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 07:51 Sat 24 May 2008

g-man wrote:Now THAT would be a damn cool experiment.

Take a Taylor 20 and get a whole bunch of taylor colheitas and see if we can blend a 20 yr tawny!!

I've had to do this a couple of times for a contest, and can tell you it's very, very difficult. LadyR was much better than I, and almost secured herself a job as blender for Graham's.

An important aspect of the aged tawnies is that acoording to IVDP rules the age mentioned on the bottle is an indication. This means that the added components of a 10 year old are not necesserily 10 years old on average, but it is supposed to have the flavour profile of a port with 10 years of age. In most cases, the port approximately has the age that is on the bottle, but it can vary a little.

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