Port House abbreviations

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flash_uk
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk » 14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020

PhilW wrote:
13:45 Mon 09 Mar 2020
Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?
Yes good spot. It's listed under M alphabetically.
Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 23:12 Mon 09 Mar 2020

VDM = Quinta Vale Dona Maria” added to the official list.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 23:13 Mon 09 Mar 2020

flash_uk wrote:
14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020
Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!
Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.

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flash_uk
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk » 08:47 Tue 10 Mar 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
23:13 Mon 09 Mar 2020
flash_uk wrote:
14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020
Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!
Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.
Yes good point :-)

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 10:46 Tue 10 Mar 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
23:13 Mon 09 Mar 2020
flash_uk wrote:
14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020
Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!
Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.
Agreed and done.

Also moved Vale Meao and Van Zeller abbreviations to their correct alphabetic position in list.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 15:13 Tue 10 Mar 2020

Alpha by abbreviation, or by dominant word in name? Perhaps I wasn't consistent: what is new guidance?

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 18:27 Tue 10 Mar 2020

PhilW wrote:
13:45 Mon 09 Mar 2020
I'd agree with VDM as most obvious choice, and to my mind no more confusing with potential Vesuvio single quinta as Gould Campbell GC is with potential new Graham's single quinta (i.e. we already cope with this issue). Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?
Beat me to it. Yes, VM is Quinta do Vale Meao not Vesuvio Malvedos.

VDM also makes the most sense to me. I know we try to keep them as short as possible, but this is one of those cases where the extra length adds significantly to clarity.
Glenn Elliott

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Re: RE: Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 21:09 Tue 10 Mar 2020

jdaw1 wrote:Alpha by abbreviation, or by dominant word in name? Perhaps I wasn't consistent: what is new guidance?
Alpha by abbreviation, though I wasn't intending to change the approach - should I revert?

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AHB
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by AHB » 22:09 Tue 10 Mar 2020

People will want to look up both abbreviation to shipper and vice versa. We should have two lists.
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 00:22 Wed 11 Mar 2020

Many links, in this thread and elsewhere, pointed to the old location of the list. Most, perhaps, all have been edited to point to the new first-post location.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 00:23 Wed 11 Mar 2020

AHB wrote:
22:09 Tue 10 Mar 2020
People will want to look up both abbreviation to shipper and vice versa. We should have two lists.
In practice it will be difficult to keep in synch the two lists. Control-F is your friend.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 18:56 Thu 30 Apr 2020

AHB wrote:
16:13 Thu 30 Apr 2020
I have just been advised Quinta da Devesa will be bottling 2018 as their first production of Vintage Port.
Some pictures on PortugalVineyards.com.

Dv? Could be Ds, but I prefer Dv. Any objections to Dv?

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 19:08 Thu 30 Apr 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
18:56 Thu 30 Apr 2020
Dv? Could be Ds, but I prefer Dv. Any objections to Dv?
Dv preferred (and already used here!)

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 00:50 Fri 01 May 2020

I also prefer Dv.
Glenn Elliott

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:23 Tue 05 May 2020

Axel P wrote:
19:43 Tue 05 May 2020
Image
Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo needs an abbreviation. BA? BAz? Any opinions?

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 22:24 Tue 05 May 2020

Past practice seems to lead to BA, as we only rarely use more than 1 character except for disambiguation. Does Burmester have another Quinta that might need disambiguation from (A)rnozelo? Even if so, past practice seems to lead to first come first served, with only subsequent examples providing necessary disambiguation.

I say BA.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 13:54 Wed 06 May 2020

Glenn E. wrote:
22:24 Tue 05 May 2020
Past practice seems to lead to BA, as we only rarely use more than 1 character except for disambiguation. Does Burmester have another Quinta that might need disambiguation from (A)rnozelo? Even if so, past practice seems to lead to first come first served, with only subsequent examples providing necessary disambiguation.

I say BA.
Agree, BA. Of course, there is also FrA1870 which is also Arnozello [two Ls], a single quinta vp release in 1870 - which we should of course be drinking this year; sadly my last case ran out never ago.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 22:47 Wed 06 May 2020

BA = Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo
Done.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by AHB » 08:42 Thu 07 May 2020

I think Fr's Arnozello and Burmester's Arnozelo are the same quinta, just the effect of time and historically limited literacy having changed the spelling slightly (c.f. Vargelas and Vargellas).

I like the consistency of having XxA being the Arnozelo wine, whether made under the stewardship of Ferreira or Burmester. Sadly we didn't follow that logic when we named Taylor Vargellas as TV and Vesuvio as V. Ferreira made both a Ferreira Vargelas and a Ferreira Vezuvio in the 19C - we don't have abbreviations for those wines. Should we?

Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by AHB » 08:44 Thu 07 May 2020

We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?
Top Ports in 2019: Niepoort VV (1960s bottling) and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
Top Ports in 2020 (so far): Croft 1945 and Niepoort VV (1960s bottling)

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 10:07 Thu 07 May 2020

AHB wrote:
08:42 Thu 07 May 2020
Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).
The original purpose of these necessitated brevity. Brevity is still very much a desideratum. As is consistency with the printed book. So my vote, in response to Alex’s questions, is a strong ‘no’.
AHB wrote:
08:44 Thu 07 May 2020
We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?
RPR preferred, for brevity.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 21:17 Thu 07 May 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
10:07 Thu 07 May 2020
AHB wrote:
08:42 Thu 07 May 2020
Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).
The original purpose of these necessitated brevity. Brevity is still very much a desideratum. As is consistency with the printed book. So my vote, in response to Alex’s questions, is a strong ‘no’.
AHB wrote:
08:44 Thu 07 May 2020
We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?
RPR preferred, for brevity.
I'm okay with the mildly confusing possibility of someone having to explain what their FrV actually is. I would like to be present for the explanation and, presumably, the tasting. Preferably FrV vs FrV head-to-head, if that could please be arranged.

I concur re: RPR, making the pair (with RPE) more recognizably related should RPE ever be needed.
Glenn Elliott

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:39 Wed 10 Jun 2020

JacobH wrote:
16:35 Wed 10 Jun 2020
A new shipper, Kranemann have declared 2018. It’s based at Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Águias, although it’s not quite clear from the website whether it’s a SQVP. The name is from its owner—Christoph Kranemann—who seems to be an ophthalmologist who moved into wine production via. wine collecting as a hobby. They also advertise a 2009 but I wonder if that is old stock that has been re-branded.
Km? If could be Kn, but that is more easily confusable with Kr = (Wiese &) Krohn. Any objections to Km?

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by JacobH » 21:56 Wed 10 Jun 2020

Km for me- it emphasises the two key syllables and, as you say, Kn sounds like Krohn.

BTW, some Ports are sold under the brand of Senhora do Convento. There is some duplication (e.g. there's both a 10 YO tawny SdC and Km) so I presume it's more than a SQVP name. I'm not sure if that warrants another abbreviation or not!
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 22:06 Wed 10 Jun 2020

Km preferred here also.

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