Port House abbreviations

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:41 Mon 01 Oct 2018

DRT wrote:
19:40 Mon 01 Oct 2018
Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas
Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.

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DRT
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by DRT » 19:59 Wed 03 Oct 2018

jdaw1 wrote:
21:41 Mon 01 Oct 2018
DRT wrote:
19:40 Mon 01 Oct 2018
Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas
Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.
In works better than any of those alternatives.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

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Doggett
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Doggett » 19:21 Fri 05 Oct 2018

Io?

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jdaw1
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Re: RE: Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 20:54 Fri 05 Oct 2018

Doggett wrote:Io?
No. Consonants give gravitas and structure. Only vowels only when really necessary.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 01:54 Tue 16 Oct 2018

Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).
Glenn Elliott

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 00:35 Wed 07 Nov 2018

Glenn E. wrote:
01:54 Tue 16 Oct 2018
Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).
As you say: no VP, no need. Do suggest — though it’s too late to go in the canonical list in The Book.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk » 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020

Planning for the 1970 Horizontal has revealed a handful of shippers without an agreed abbreviation:
Flagman
Lopes
Maia
Marks & Spencer own selection
Thienpont (Butler Nephew)

As a proposal, how about:
Fl - we already have FM for F Martins
Lp
Mi
MAS
Tp

Thoughts welcome.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020

flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Marks & Spencer own selection



MAS
If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?

flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Thienpont (Butler Nephew)
What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Flagman
Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.

flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Lopes



Lp
Lp fits the general preference for hard consonants, and is available.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk » 09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?
Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.
jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 09:56 Fri 31 Jan 2020

flash_uk wrote:
09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?
Bottler, so this is BN.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 10:29 Fri 31 Jan 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
09:56 Fri 31 Jan 2020
flash_uk wrote:
09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?
Bottler, so this is BN.
Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.
Last edited by PhilW on 10:37 Fri 31 Jan 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 10:33 Fri 31 Jan 2020

flash_uk wrote:
09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?
Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.
Am less keen on use of & (we normally drop it elsewhere e.g. BB&R, W&S etc).
Appreciate MS is less clear vs Ms, so MAS or MSp preferred by me (but perhaps only me?).

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 10:35 Fri 31 Jan 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Marks & Spencer own selection
flash_uk wrote:
19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020
Flagman
Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.
Agree Fm is more natural; but if anyone ever brings an "F. Martins" port along (not currently listed in abbreviations either), we won't want to use FM at that stage. I suggest adding both FM for "F. Martins" and therefore Fl for Flagman.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 10:54 Fri 31 Jan 2020

PhilW wrote:
10:29 Fri 31 Jan 2020
Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.
There is a grey region here. There are distinguishing qualities (BBR Ports supplied by, but not necessarily same blend as), but even that is not necessarily always true.

I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?

But I agree that this isn't a bright line.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 17:19 Fri 31 Jan 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
10:54 Fri 31 Jan 2020
I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?
I looked at my list of BOBs, and have to admit that I don't know how many may/not be the same or different to suppliers' blends. I suspect they are the same in many cases, but cannot be sure. Also there are several for which I know of only one vintage sold under their own name (which doesn't mean there are not others, just that I'm not aware of them) such as Hedges and Butler - well known bottler for many producers, but I'm only aware of their own brand in '35 (which was Taylor).

Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient for them; Use Tp and M&S on the placemats for now, but don't add them to the canonical list?
Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk » 18:38 Fri 31 Jan 2020

I still haven't found anyone who has the M&S 1970, so it may be it doesn't matter for now about the abbreviation!

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:01 Fri 31 Jan 2020

PhilW wrote:
17:19 Fri 31 Jan 2020
Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient … but don't add them to the canonical list?
Works for me.
PhilW wrote:
17:19 Fri 31 Jan 2020
Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).
Done: moved to the Reference section.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by nac » 13:58 Fri 07 Feb 2020

Unless I can't see it, the list of abbreviations seems to be missing Churchill's Fojo?

Since it exists - viewtopic.php?p=102031 - should it be ChF?

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