Tasting Notes Section
Do you have Excel or Microsoft Word?
Do you have Excel or Microsoft Word? If yes, I’ll send an example.
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
Re: List of valid names
I suspect that Brunheda and Brunheda Colheita should be the same port. Should I amend my tasting note title to just read Brunheda?jdaw1 wrote:Let’s allow wider comment. The spreadsheet has a list of ports. All names should look like one of the list below: comment welcome, improvements better.
- Quinta da Brunheda;
- Quinta da Brunheda Colheita;
- do Vesuvio Finest Reserve 1991;
- Graham’s Crusted;
- Graham’s Crusted Port;
- Noval LBV;
- Noval LBV Unfiltered;
- Vista Allegre;
- Quinta da Vista Allegre;
I suspect that the do Vesuvio 1991 Finest Reserve should just be Vesuvio (or should we also include the Quinta do in our titles?).
Graham's Crusted and Graham's Crusted Port are clearly the same thing.
Should we just have a single kind of title for our LBVs, as suggested above?
Clearly the Vista Allegre's are the same thing.
So what can we do with the titles of our tasting notes to make your life easier and the TN sort more automated?
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Don’t worry at all about TNs that are already in the index
Don’t worry at all about TNs that are already in the index. Don’t waste your time.
Useful steps include helping me fix my mess (duplicates, errors, inconsistent capitalisation), and then always using one of the names on a list I’ll post somewhere.
Alex: you seem to be keenest on the index, so let’s proceed as follows. You propose rules, without consultation. If nobody objects, that’s agreed. For example, which of:
Useful steps include helping me fix my mess (duplicates, errors, inconsistent capitalisation), and then always using one of the names on a list I’ll post somewhere.
Alex: you seem to be keenest on the index, so let’s proceed as follows. You propose rules, without consultation. If nobody objects, that’s agreed. For example, which of:
- Graham 1985
- Graham Vintage Port 1985
- Graham vintage port 1985
- Graham’s 1985
- Graham’s Vintage Port 1985
- Graham’s vintage port 1985
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
OK, I'm happy to do this. Here are my proposals:
Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham vintage port or
1979 Malvedos vintage port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "vintage port" without capitalisation
Single Quinta vintage ports should be named thus:
1989 Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Quinta do / da / de / dos" as appropriate and the words "vintage port" without capitalisation but with the word Quinta starting with a capital Q
Crusted ports should be named thus:
Graham's crusted port
That is to say, no reference to vintage or bottling date in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "crusted port" being used but without capitalisation
Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
Fonseca Bin 27; or
Croft Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "colheita" (ideally spelt this way) without a capital letter
Tawny ports should be named thus:
10 year old Taylor tawny port; or
Barros tawny port; or
Delaforce His Master's Eminence tawny port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and the words "year old" without capitalisation; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "tawny port" without capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "tawny port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
So this is my suggestion - what have I forgotten?
Alex
Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham vintage port or
1979 Malvedos vintage port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "vintage port" without capitalisation
Single Quinta vintage ports should be named thus:
1989 Quinta do Vesuvio vintage port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Quinta do / da / de / dos" as appropriate and the words "vintage port" without capitalisation but with the word Quinta starting with a capital Q
Crusted ports should be named thus:
Graham's crusted port
That is to say, no reference to vintage or bottling date in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "crusted port" being used but without capitalisation
Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
Fonseca Bin 27; or
Croft Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "colheita" (ideally spelt this way) without a capital letter
Tawny ports should be named thus:
10 year old Taylor tawny port; or
Barros tawny port; or
Delaforce His Master's Eminence tawny port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and the words "year old" without capitalisation; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "tawny port" without capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "tawny port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
So this is my suggestion - what have I forgotten?
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Great: something on which to work. Presumably the same formats would apply in the TN index?
For second-name single-quinta I prefer “Graham Malvedos†.AHB wrote:Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham vintage port or
1979 Malvedos vintage port
Do you want the TN index to use the sub-list, that is usually vintages, for bottling date? If yes, that should appear in the title.AHB wrote:Crusted ports should be named thus:
Graham's crusted port
That is to say, no reference to vintage or bottling date in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "crusted port" being used but without capitalisation
Works for me, but does mean that the TN index lumps together the various shades of LBV. But, as I say, works for me.AHB wrote:Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
I’d only fix it later to say “Croft Warrior’s Reserve†, with a curly single quotation mark, so why not get it right in the title?AHB wrote:Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
Fonseca Bin 27; or
Croft Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Works for me.AHB wrote:Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "colheita" (ideally spelt this way) without a capital letter
Brevity and automation would be aided by using “10Y† instead of “10 year old†. Do you strongly object?AHB wrote:Tawny ports should be named thus:
10 year old Taylor tawny port; or
Barros tawny port; or
Delaforce His Master's Eminence tawny port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and the words "year old" without capitalisation; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "tawny port" without capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "tawny port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
Re: Do you have Excel or Microsoft Word?
I have microsoft Word?jdaw1 wrote:Do you have Excel or Microsoft Word? If yes, I’ll send an example.
Alan
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
This is fine by me and makes sense in the index listing.jdaw1 wrote:For second-name single-quinta I prefer “Graham Malvedos†.AHB wrote:Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham vintage port or
1979 Malvedos vintage port
Personally, I think that we will drink relatively small numbers of bottles of crusted port and therefore this probably doesn't matter. However, I would be easy to persuade otherwise.Do you want the TN index to use the sub-list, that is usually vintages, for bottling date? If yes, that should appear in the title.AHB wrote:Crusted ports should be named thus:
Graham's crusted port
That is to say, no reference to vintage or bottling date in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "crusted port" being used but without capitalisation
I agree with the observation but, personally, feel that there is more confusion being created from the differences than would be created from lumping everything in to just one category differentiated by vintage.Works for me, but does mean that the TN index lumps together the various shades of LBV. But, as I say, works for me.AHB wrote:Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
Noted, however I suspect that most people will only be willing to use the apostrophe on the keyboard as an "all purpose apostrophe".I’d only fix it later to say “Croft Warrior’s Reserve†, with a curly single quotation mark, so why not get it right in the title?AHB wrote:Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
Fonseca Bin 27; or
Croft Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Good suggestion and one that I would fully agree to.Brevity and automation would be aided by using “10Y† instead of “10 year old†. Do you strongly object?AHB wrote:Tawny ports should be named thus:
10 year old Taylor tawny port; or
Barros tawny port; or
Delaforce His Master's Eminence tawny port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and the words "year old" without capitalisation; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "tawny port" without capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "tawny port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Do you want to re-post your original rules
OK. Do you want to re-post your original rules, with amendments, as the state of the art suggestion?
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
It will be easier for others to comment on a singe post
It will be easier for others to comment on a singe post that contains your best judgement (as that judgement might have been modified by my comments).
- KillerB
- Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
- Posts: 2425
- Joined: 22:09 Wed 20 Jun 2007
- Location: Sky Blue City, England
If something doesn't have a vintage year, or a year for that matter then it should be prefixed with "NV", this helps with automatic selection.
I think that Crusteds should be allowed the year that is on the label as this distinguishes them from other years, it is only a year just like Colheitas and LBVs.
Does Croft make a Warrior Reserve as well?
I think that Crusteds should be allowed the year that is on the label as this distinguishes them from other years, it is only a year just like Colheitas and LBVs.
Does Croft make a Warrior Reserve as well?
Port is basically a red drink
Croft Warrior Reserve
KillerB wrote:Does Croft make a Warrior Reserve as well?
I suppose it shows how little experience Alex and I have with this style of port.
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
I'll include this in my update, written when I get a few minutes spare.KillerB wrote:If something doesn't have a vintage year, or a year for that matter then it should be prefixed with "NV", this helps with automatic selection.
Although I wasn't going to go for this approach, I am happy to be persuaded otherwise and will consider your comment and Julian's initial comment as two votes in favour of using the bottling date in the title and index to my one vote against.KillerB wrote:I think that Crusteds should be allowed the year that is on the label as this distinguishes them from other years, it is only a year just like Colheitas and LBVs.
Absolutely they do. It sits on the shelves next to the Taylor 6 Grapes and the Offley Bin 27. You should try one when you next see it in your local supermarket or off-licence.KillerB wrote:Does Croft make a Warrior Reserve as well?
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
I vote for
- the use of the possesive
- inclusion of bottling year for Crusted Port
- the use of "Un-filtered", "Traditional" or "Bottle Matured" where appropriate for LBV's as some shippers produce both filtered and unfiltered LBV's
- capitalisation of Vintage Port, Crusted Port, Colheita etc
- the right to continue to randomly mis-spell Colhieta
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
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- Location: Berkshire, UK
I'm lazy so proposed no possessive in order to save two letters of typing every tasting note. However, in the spirit of democracy if I am outvoted on this then I will bow to the wishes of the majority. I make that one for against the use of the possessive and one in favour.Derek T. wrote:I vote forDerek
- the use of the possesive
- inclusion of bottling year for Crusted Port
- the use of "Un-filtered", "Traditional" or "Bottle Matured" where appropriate for LBV's as some shippers produce both filtered and unfiltered LBV's
- capitalisation of Vintage Port, Crusted Port, Colheita etc
- the right to continue to randomly mis-spell Colhieta
I concede on the use of the bottling date for crusted port. This is now 3 votes in favour and 1 against.
I would still prefer not to use the filtered / unfiltered / traditional / bottle matured nomenclature for the LBVs. I feel that trying to include these into the title will cause confusion as to which term to use and this is easily covered if you read the note itself. My vision is that the TN index says something along the lines of (you'll just have to imagine the fancy formatting that Julian can give it):
Noval LBV
1984 JDAW1
AHB
1988 DRW
etc.
By reading the notes, you will easily be able to see whether the LBV was a filtered or unfiltered version. The advantage that I can see for simply listing all the LBVs together is that you also have the filtered vs unfiltered tasting notes side by side so you can easily see if filtering actually makes a difference. However, I will again bow to the majority wish on this. Any other preferences that people would like to express?
Capitalisation - again, happy to go with the flow. Who else would prefer to use or not use capitals?
Mis-spelling of vintage dated aged tawny ports - absolutely not. There is only one correct way to spell colheita in the title of a tasting note. My recommendation is that you invest in a spellchecker, perhaps borrow Conky's, or restrain your anarchic tendencies for the body of the tasting note.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
One of my New Year's Resolutions is never to argue with a man with a Vision, so I concede on the filtered/unfiltered point.AHB wrote:My vision is that the TN index says something along the lines of ...
This is essential to my Vision that all words in the titles should adopt Title Case.AHB wrote:Capitalisation - again, happy to go with the flow. Who else would prefer to use or not use capitals?
I have only just noticed that this word conforms to the i-before-e-except-after-c principal (or is it principle? I'm never sure which) that I learned at a very young age therefore the chances of future instances of me mis-spelling the word Colhieta are now drastically reduced.AHB wrote:Mis-spelling of vintage dated aged tawny ports - absolutely not. There is only one correct way to spell colheita in the title of a tasting note. My recommendation is that you invest in a spellchecker, perhaps borrow Conky's, or restrain your anarchic tendencies for the body of the tasting note.
Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
- RonnieRoots
- Fonseca 1980
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- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
Updated proposals based on feedback to date:
Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham Vintage Port or
1979 Graham Malvedos Vintage Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Vintage Port" with capitalisation.
Single Quinta vintage ports should be named thus:
1989 Quinta do Vesuvio Vintage Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Quinta do / da / de / dos" as appropriate and the words "Vintage Port" with capitalisation and also with the word Quinta starting with a capital Q
Crusted ports should be named thus:
2001 Graham's Crusted Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year of bottling in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "Crusted Port" being used with capitalisation
Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
NV Fonseca Bin 27; or
NV Warre Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the capital letters NV to indicate the wine is not vintage dated, followed by the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre Colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "Colheita" (ideally spelt this way) with a capital letter
Tawny ports should be named thus:
10Y Taylor Tawny Port; or
NV Barros Tawny Port; or
NV Delaforce His Master's Eminence Tawny Port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and a capital Y immdiately following (no space between the digits and the letter Y) otherwise the letters "NV" should be used to indicate it is a non-vintage dated port; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "Tawny Port" with capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "Tawny Port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
This is based on feedback to date, further feedback would be very welcome. One specific piece of feedback I'm after is whether you would be happier to use the possessive (ie. Graham's Vintage Port) or not (ie. Graham Vintage Port) in the title of the tasting note.
Thanks all.
Alex
Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham Vintage Port or
1979 Graham Malvedos Vintage Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Vintage Port" with capitalisation.
Single Quinta vintage ports should be named thus:
1989 Quinta do Vesuvio Vintage Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the words "Quinta do / da / de / dos" as appropriate and the words "Vintage Port" with capitalisation and also with the word Quinta starting with a capital Q
Crusted ports should be named thus:
2001 Graham's Crusted Port
That is to say, 4 digits for the year of bottling in the title; the possessive is used (with apostrophe); the full phrase of "Crusted Port" being used with capitalisation
Late Bottled Vintage ports should be named thus:
1983 Croft LBV
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; no possessive; including the capital letters LBV after the name of the shipper to indicate the nature of the port. No reference should be made in the title to whether the port is filtered or unfiltered or to the bottling date, these details should be included in the tasting note text.
Ruby and reserve ports should be named thus:
NV Fonseca Bin 27; or
NV Warre Warrior's Reserve
That is to say, the capital letters NV to indicate the wine is not vintage dated, followed by the name of the shipper (without possessive) followed by the name of the port as written on the bottle.
Colheita ports should be named thus:
1988 Warre Colheita
That is to say, 4 digits for the year; the name of the shipper; no possessive; the word "Colheita" (ideally spelt this way) with a capital letter
Tawny ports should be named thus:
10Y Taylor Tawny Port; or
NV Barros Tawny Port; or
NV Delaforce His Master's Eminence Tawny Port
That is to say, if the tawny port has an indication of age then this should appear as the first part of the tasting note title as a two digit number and a capital Y immdiately following (no space between the digits and the letter Y) otherwise the letters "NV" should be used to indicate it is a non-vintage dated port; this should be followed by the name of the shipper; no possessive; the words "Tawny Port" with capitalisation. If the tawny port has a brand name such as "His Master's Eminence" then this should be included between the name of the shipper and the words "Tawny Port" and should be exactly as written on the port label.
This is based on feedback to date, further feedback would be very welcome. One specific piece of feedback I'm after is whether you would be happier to use the possessive (ie. Graham's Vintage Port) or not (ie. Graham Vintage Port) in the title of the tasting note.
Thanks all.
Alex
Last edited by Alex Bridgeman on 09:23 Thu 03 Jan 2008, edited 1 time in total.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
- Posts: 14906
- Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
- Location: Berkshire, UK
I'm obviously feeling slow today - I've only just got the joke!Derek T wrote:I have only just noticed that this word conforms to the i-before-e-except-after-c principal (or is it principle? I'm never sure which) that I learned at a very young age therefore the chances of future instances of me mis-spelling the word Colhieta are now drastically reduced.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
Please edit.
Your example is inconsistent with the proposed rule. Please edit.AHB wrote:Updated proposals based on feedback to date:
Vintage ports should be named thus:
1985 Graham vintage port or
…
… including the words "Vintage Port" with capitalisation.
- RonnieRoots
- Fonseca 1980
- Posts: 1981
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- Location: Middle Earth
I'm confused. Should we post Graham's Quinta do Malvedos as:
- Graham Malvedos,
- Graham Quinta do Malvedos, or
- Quinta do Malvedos
Your example says the first, but lists it under classic vintage ports, while it is clearly a single quinta vintage port.
All other points are perfectly clear and fine by me.
- Graham Malvedos,
- Graham Quinta do Malvedos, or
- Quinta do Malvedos
Your example says the first, but lists it under classic vintage ports, while it is clearly a single quinta vintage port.
All other points are perfectly clear and fine by me.
- RonnieRoots
- Fonseca 1980
- Posts: 1981
- Joined: 08:28 Thu 21 Jun 2007
- Location: Middle Earth
Graham's Malvedos is a second label port, not an SQVP. In reality, modern Malvedos bottlings contain grapes only from the Quinta but this was not always so. The words "Quinta do" do not appear in the description on the label.RonnieRoots wrote:I'm confused. Should we post Graham's Quinta do Malvedos as:
- Graham Malvedos,
- Graham Quinta do Malvedos, or
- Quinta do Malvedos
Your example says the first, but lists it under classic vintage ports, while it is clearly a single quinta vintage port.
Please note the proper use of the possesive on the above label image which resides on the Symington's website.
Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn