Port House abbreviations

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PhilW
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Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 14:51 Tue 28 May 2013

We currently have a "TPF abbreviations" thread here which includes all sorts of abbreviations (people, sites, terms) and a smattering of some of the Port Houses. I suggest it would be an improvement to have a separate post in the reference section of this site providing a comprehensive list of TPF-approved abbreviations for the Port Houses (for use on placemats, posts, any indexes etc). A separate post could then list other TPF abbreviations - perhaps also in the reference section, with the existing thread used for discussion of additions and changes as currently in the conversations area.

Glenn E.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 00:54 Wed 29 May 2013

+1

One can find said abbreviations in the sorted indexes, but having a sticky post in the reference section would be very useful.
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DRT
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by DRT » 22:57 Wed 29 May 2013

What we need is a pedant with time on his hands to make this happen.

Can anyone think of who that might be?
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djewesbury
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Port House abbreviations

Post by djewesbury » 14:02 Thu 30 May 2013

DRT wrote:What we need is a pedant with time on his hands to make this happen.

Can anyone think of who that might be?
I can hear you all shouting his name, and I'm in Italy.
Daniel J.
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PhilW
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 07:33 Fri 31 May 2013

DRT wrote:What we need is a pedant with time on his hands to make this happen.

Can anyone think of who that might be?
If accepted as a sensible idea, I'd be happy to create the initial list based on current understanding; if insufficient pedantry I could then be corrected and abused as needed. I would be equally happy for another suitable individual to perform the task in the first place.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 10:30 Sat 01 Jun 2013

The following abbreviations are used in the current tasting notes alphabetic index, as shown below. [List updated 30 Sep 2018.]

A = J. H. Andresen
BV = Barão de Vilar
Br = Barros
BBR = Berry Brothers & Rudd Selection
BI = Borges & Irmão
Bb = Broadbent
B = Burmester
BN = Butler Nephew
= Cálem
CáF = Cálem Quinta da Foz
CM = Castro Mello
Ch = Churchill
ChAA = Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta
ChG = Churchill Quinta da Gricha
Ck = Cockburn
CkC = Cockburn Quinta dos Canais
Cn = Constantino
Cs = Quinta do Crasto
Cr = Croft
CrR = Croft Quinta da Roêda
Cz = Cruz
Dl = Dalva
Df = Delaforce
DfC = Delaforce Quinta da Corte
Dx = Dixon (& Morgan)
D = Dow
DB = Dow Quinta do Bomfim
DSR = Dow Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira
DG = Duff Gordon
Du = Duorum
Fs = Feist
Fr = Ferreira
FrL = Ferreira Quinta da Leda
FrP = Ferreira Quinta do Porto
FrS = Ferreira Quinta do Seixo
Fd = Feuerheerd
F = Fonseca
FG = Fonseca Guimaraens
FP = Fonseca Quinta do Panascal
GB = Gonzalez Byass
MG = M. Gonzalez
GC = Gould Campbell
G = Graham
GL = Graham’s Quinta das Lages
GM = Graham’s (Quinta dos) Malvedos
GST = Graham’s The Stone Terraces
Gd = Guedes
Ho = Hooper
H = Hutcheson
In = Quinta do Infantado
K = Kopke
KL = Kopke Quinta São Luiz
Kr = (Wiese &) Krohn
Lc = Quinta das Liceiras
Lm = Quinta das Lamelas
Mk = Mackenzie
Mz = Martinez
VM = Quinta de Vale Meão
Ms = Messias
MsC = Messias Quinta do Cachão
Mg = Morgan
Ni = Niepoort
Nv = Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo
N = Quinta do Noval
NN = Quinta do Noval Nacional
NS = Quinta do Noval Silval
O = Offley
OBV = Offley Boa Vista
Os = Osborne
Ps = Quinta do Passadouro
Pg = Quinta do Pego
Pi = Pintas
= Poças
Pt = Quinta do Portal
Pt+ = Quinta do Portal+
QH = Quarles Harris
Qv = Quevedo
RP = Ramos Pinto
RV = Rebello Valente
Rc = Porto Rocha
Ra = Quinta da Romaneira
Rm = Romariz
Rr = Quinta de Roriz
Rs = Quinta de la Rosa
RO = Royal Oporto
ROC = Royal Oporto Quinta das Carvalhas
RCV = Real Companhia Velha
RVn = Real Vinicola
Rz = Rozès
S = Sandeman
SV = Sandeman Vau
SS = Sandeman Quinta do Seixo
SJ = A Pinto dos Santos Júnior
Sb = Quinta do Sibio
Sk = Skeffington
SW = Smith Woodhouse
SWM = Smith Woodhouse Madalena
Sz = Porto Souza
T = Taylor
TSQ = Taylor Special Quinta
TTF = Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita
TV = Taylor Quinta de Vargellas
TVVV = Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha
Td = Quinta do Tedo
TdS = Quinta do Tedo Savedre
TH = Tuke Holdsworth
Ud = O-Port-Unidade
Vl = Quinta do Vallado
Vr = Porto Valriz
Vz = Quinta de Ventozelo
V = Quinta do Vesuvio
VC = Capela da Quinta do Vesuvio
W = Warre
WC = Warre Quinta da Cavadinha
VZ = Van Zeller

For reference, since I would like to use these abbreviations elsewhere but also keep consistency, I am currently using [Unk] for Unknowns.

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 11:05 Tue 04 Jun 2013


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AHB
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by AHB » 12:43 Tue 04 Jun 2013

I've been giving some thought the matter of abbreviations and how we cope with general declarations, lesser declarations, the growth of single quinta wines and also the changing of ownership of quintas.

It seems to me that the only way we could cope was to have a structure that essentially went:
Part 1; Part 2; vintage

Part 1 would identify the shipper, if a shipper was relevant.
Part 2 would identify the quinta, if the port was sourced from a single quinta (or vineyard)
The vintage could be abbreviated, but this could lead to confusion whether we were referring to Taylor 1811, 1911 or 2011.

On this basis you could quickly have a set of rules that allowed flexibility. Consider the example of Vargellas sourced wines:
In 1912, Taylor made a vintage port, a Vargellas single quinta port and a Vargellas single quinta port from the old vines (OK, so they didn't make the latter but just bear with me for the example).
The abbreviations could be:
T 1912
T Vg 1912
T VgVV 1912

This naming structure also allows flexibility so that prior to Taylor Fladgate owning Vargellas, you would have had "Fe Vg 1878", this being the Vargellas 1878 produced under the Ferreira ownership.

If at a point in the future Vargellas become independently owned, the wines would just be identified as Vg 2050.

This type of naming convention would allow a quick search to find all wines produced by a particular shipper or from a particular quinta, or a combination of the two.

It would create some headaches as there would have to be no duplications between quinta abbreviations and shipper abbreviations but it would also help with differentiating between some of the quirks like Quinta do Noval Silval (NoS) and Quinta do Noval Quinta do Silval (No Si). A search on "No" would pull out both wines but still allow a more refined search to identify only one of the two.
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 12:51 Tue 04 Jun 2013

One of the desiderata is brevity. ‟TV96” works a lot of the time. FrVg1878 (or FeVg1878) is a much smaller proportion of my diet.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by AHB » 13:15 Tue 04 Jun 2013

jdaw1 wrote:One of the desiderata is brevity. ‟TV96” works a lot of the time. FrVg1878 (or FeVg1878) is a much smaller proportion of my diet.
True - it is a balance between completeness, brevity and clarity.

If we are just looking for a commonly understood abbreviation then TV96 mostly works.

If we're looking for something which in years to come can be searched and found and understood with clarity then TV96 will generally work, but will leave room for confusion - Taylor Vargellas 1896 or 1996?

Perhaps a quick solution is to abbreviate only where there is potential confusion? Thus TV96 would be TV1996 or TV1896 but FeV78 would be just that? Or perhaps abbreviate 20th century vintages and those where there is no confusion - TV96, TV1896 and FeV78

But life is too short for me to become too worried about this. If we develop a common standard, I will use it; otherwise I will use common sense.
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by djewesbury » 16:06 Tue 04 Jun 2013

jdaw1 wrote:One of the desiderata is brevity. ‟TV96” works a lot of the time. FrVg1878 (or FeVg1878) is a much smaller proportion of my diet.
Also, we have to allow for user having a certain amount of brain at their disposal. Perhaps not the end of the world if they are presented with a choice between 1878 and 1978 on searching for a particular wine. They will have very little to do in order to find the notes on the tipple by which they are confronted at that moment. Of course, an infallible system that is ready for any eventuality is always good. Good luck with that one...
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 16:27 Tue 04 Jun 2013

Perhaps what is wanted is a system with AHB-style longer abbreviations, but also with concise versions to be used only where context disambiguates.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by djewesbury » 16:38 Tue 04 Jun 2013

jdaw1 wrote:Perhaps what is wanted is a system with AHB-style longer abbreviations, but also with concise versions to be used only where context disambiguates.
thoroughly sensible. +1
Daniel J.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 11:24 Fri 07 Jun 2013

Agree with all of AHB's post, plus the benefit of brevity/simplicity.
jdaw1 wrote:Perhaps what is wanted is a system with AHB-style longer abbreviations, but also with concise versions to be used only where context disambiguates.
Agree, though I would suggest the additional rule that the Shipper should never be abbreviated.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 15:51 Fri 07 Jun 2013

PhilW wrote:Agree, though I would suggest the additional rule that the Shipper should never be abbreviated.
So, for Churchill Agua Alta, you want ChAA rather than CAA. Presumably you give greater weight to internal consistency than to brevity.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 17:21 Fri 07 Jun 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
PhilW wrote:Agree, though I would suggest the additional rule that the Shipper should never be abbreviated.
So, for Churchill Agua Alta, you want ChAA rather than CAA. Presumably you give greater weight to internal consistency than to brevity.
I would also accept ChA for brevity (thought ChAA seems more natural), but yes, very strong dislike for CAA.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 17:44 Fri 07 Jun 2013

PhilW wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
PhilW wrote:Agree, though I would suggest the additional rule that the Shipper should never be abbreviated.
So, for Churchill Agua Alta, you want ChAA rather than CAA. Presumably you give greater weight to internal consistency than to brevity.
I would also accept ChA for brevity (thought ChAA seems more natural), but yes, very strong dislike for CAA.
Agreed. CAA would be a Cockburn property.
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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 16:43 Sun 31 Jul 2016


PhilW
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW » 20:53 Sun 31 Jul 2016

I would make the following changes:

Ck = Cockburn
VC = Vesuvio Capela

and would suggest:

ChAA Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta
DSR Dow Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira
KSL = Kopke Quinta São Luiz

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by idj123 » 21:00 Sun 31 Jul 2016

Agree with Phil regarding the Ck and VC. Is there any reason why Krohn isn't Kr?

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 21:09 Sun 31 Jul 2016

PhilW wrote:Ck = Cockburn
Oops, I started from an old list. Agreed.
PhilW wrote:VC = Vesuvio Capela
idj123 wrote:Agree with Phil regarding the Ck and VC.
Clarity versus pedantry. I’m happy with either. VC it is.
PhilW wrote:ChAA Churchill Quinta da Agua Alta
I prefer the brevity of ChA, which is still unique.
PhilW wrote:DSR Dow Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira
Senhora feels to me to be a low-information word, hence my preferring the DB-like DR. Other votes?
PhilW wrote:KSL = Kopke Quinta São Luiz
São is definitely a low-information word. Yes yes, obviously Luiz’s mother was pleased with the promotion, but for our purposes, low-information. And KL traditional: 27 June 2009, 23 Oct 2009, 16 March 2010, 28 Sep 2010 (which also has Kh for Krohn), and 20 Jan 2013.
idj123 wrote:Is there any reason why Krohn isn't Kr?
None except being traditional. Though WK also has merit.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 23:05 Sun 31 Jul 2016

Additional suggestions:

Cockburn Quinta dos Canais should be CkC, not CC
Croft Quinta da Roeda should be CrR, not CR
Messias Quinta do Cachão should be MsC, not MC.

General rule: keep the Producer abbreviation intact when adding a qualifier. (This has been previously suggested by Phil.)

DG bothers me, as it appears to be a Dow Quinta. I do not see a viable alternative. There are numerous others that bother me for similar reasons, with equally lacking alternatives. GB and GC, for example. (GL and GM are Graham estates, but GB and GC aren't?) As further information, BN doesn't bother me as much because Burmester doesn't have any SQVP bottlings, so the issue for me is mostly confined to cases that might cause confusion.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. » 23:10 Sun 31 Jul 2016

Question: do you distinguish between Graham Malvedos and Graham Quinta dos Malvedos?
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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 » 23:46 Sun 31 Jul 2016

Glenn E. wrote:Cockburn Quinta dos Canais should be CkC, not CC
Croft Quinta da Roeda should be CrR, not CR
Messias Quinta do Cachão should be MsC, not MC.

General rule: keep the Producer abbreviation intact when adding a qualifier.
General rule: brevity good. The rules conflict. There is precedent for CR = Croft Roeda (14 May 2010, 2 Mar 2012, 15 Oct 2012 (which has Cr70 and CR70 side-by-side), and 16 June 2014); and for MC = Cachão (2 Mar 2012 and 12 Oct 2013 (pages 284, 374, 378, 383, and others) ).
Glenn E. wrote:DG bothers me, as it appears to be a Dow Quinta. I do not see a viable alternative. There are numerous others that bother me for similar reasons, with equally lacking alternatives. GB and GC, for example. (GL and GM are Graham estates, but GB and GC aren't?) As further information, BN doesn't bother me as much because Burmester doesn't have any SQVP bottlings, so the issue for me is mostly confined to cases that might cause confusion.
The only logical solution is Dw = Dow, and that because Glenn gets confused by Duff Gordon. Not going there.
Glenn E. wrote:Question: do you distinguish between Graham Malvedos and Graham Quinta dos Malvedos?
The abbreviations are meant to cope as well as concision allows with almost all relevant cases. Are there any years in which there are both Graham Malvedos and Graham Quinta dos Malvedos? No. Good.

Quinta de Vale Meão: VM or ? Perhaps I prefer the latter.

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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by DRT » 04:58 Mon 01 Aug 2016

I would suggest avoiding the use of squiggles. (Calem, Pocas, Vale Meao). These abbreviations are intended to make life simple. Don't condemn your readers to a life sentence of searching for squiggles that don't obviously exist on their keyboard.

I agree with everything JDAW has said in response to other suggestions.
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