Port brand abbreviations

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jdaw1
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

DRT wrote: 19:40 Mon 01 Oct 2018Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas
Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by DRT »

jdaw1 wrote: 21:41 Mon 01 Oct 2018
DRT wrote: 19:40 Mon 01 Oct 2018Suggestion: Lm = Quinta das Lamelas
Fine by me.

Also, I for Infantado doesn’t fit the general pattern of reserving the few single-letter names for the few ancient famous blends of large volume and fame. Should it be In or If or It or Id? Unless there’s strong and quick dissent, it’s going to be In.
In works better than any of those alternatives.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Doggett »

Io?
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Re: RE: Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

Doggett wrote:Io?
No. Consonants give gravitas and structure. Only vowels only when really necessary.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Glenn E. »

Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

Glenn E. wrote: 01:54 Tue 16 Oct 2018Are Eq and Ec not included because Eufemia doesn't (often? ever?) produce VP?

Question posed primarily due to the unique difficulty with naming the split house(s).
As you say: no VP, no need. Do suggest — though it’s too late to go in the canonical list in The Book.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk »

Planning for the 1970 Horizontal has revealed a handful of shippers without an agreed abbreviation:
Flagman
Lopes
Maia
Marks & Spencer own selection
Thienpont (Butler Nephew)

As a proposal, how about:
Fl - we already have FM for F Martins
Lp
Mi
MAS
Tp

Thoughts welcome.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Marks & Spencer own selection



MAS
If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?

flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Thienpont (Butler Nephew)
What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?

flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Flagman
Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.

flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Lopes



Lp
Lp fits the general preference for hard consonants, and is available.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk »

jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020 If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?
Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.
jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020 What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

flash_uk wrote: 09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020 What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?
Bottler, so this is BN.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW »

jdaw1 wrote: 09:56 Fri 31 Jan 2020
flash_uk wrote: 09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020 What is or was the relationship between BN and Tp (if a stand-alone abbreviation, my preference)?
George Thienpont. Also, a purchase by Gerwin. And by Axel. Perhaps this is simply BN70 bottled by Thienpont, in which case not meriting an abbreviation?
Bottler, so this is BN.
Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.
Last edited by PhilW on 10:37 Fri 31 Jan 2020, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW »

flash_uk wrote: 09:24 Fri 31 Jan 2020
jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020 If M&S is to be as long as three big characters, why not “M&S” (which has precedent)?
Hadn't realised that "&" was in use. M&S would be fine I think.
Am less keen on use of & (we normally drop it elsewhere e.g. BB&R, W&S etc).
Appreciate MS is less clear vs Ms, so MAS or MSp preferred by me (but perhaps only me?).
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW »

jdaw1 wrote: 21:21 Thu 30 Jan 2020
flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Marks & Spencer own selection
flash_uk wrote: 19:12 Thu 30 Jan 2020Flagman
Fg is too near FG. So Fm seems natural, though I could live with Fl.
Agree Fm is more natural; but if anyone ever brings an "F. Martins" port along (not currently listed in abbreviations either), we won't want to use FM at that stage. I suggest adding both FM for "F. Martins" and therefore Fl for Flagman.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

PhilW wrote: 10:29 Fri 31 Jan 2020Disagree. That same argument would invalidate our use of BBR for their buyer's own brand ("Berry's Own Selection" as opposed to other BBR-bottled wines which identify the producer). The Thienpont label does not list the producer, so this is a buyer's own brand of Thienpont (see Axel's label, with only the cork revealing it to be BN). Tp.
There is a grey region here. There are distinguishing qualities (BBR Ports supplied by, but not necessarily same blend as), but even that is not necessarily always true.

I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?

But I agree that this isn't a bright line.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW »

jdaw1 wrote: 10:54 Fri 31 Jan 2020 I suspect that I'm giving weight to multiple things. Is it a real Port brand? Likelihood different wine to supplierʼs blend? How often seen — reluctant to waste combinations on a once-off?
I looked at my list of BOBs, and have to admit that I don't know how many may/not be the same or different to suppliers' blends. I suspect they are the same in many cases, but cannot be sure. Also there are several for which I know of only one vintage sold under their own name (which doesn't mean there are not others, just that I'm not aware of them) such as Hedges and Butler - well known bottler for many producers, but I'm only aware of their own brand in '35 (which was Taylor).

Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient for them; Use Tp and M&S on the placemats for now, but don't add them to the canonical list?
Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk »

I still haven't found anyone who has the M&S 1970, so it may be it doesn't matter for now about the abbreviation!
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

PhilW wrote: 17:19 Fri 31 Jan 2020Perhaps ad-hoc abbreviation is sufficient … but don't add them to the canonical list?
Works for me.
PhilW wrote: 17:19 Fri 31 Jan 2020Also, perhaps this should be stickied and/or moved to the reference section for easier, er, reference (and move list to first post in thread?).
Done: moved to the Reference section.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by nac »

Unless I can't see it, the list of abbreviations seems to be missing Churchill's Fojo?

Since it exists - viewtopic.php?p=102031 - should it be ChF?
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

It seems that we lack an abbreviation for Quinta Vale Dona Maria. Any objection to ‘DM’? (Separately, www.quintavaledonamaria.com seems to be not working.)

(Cross link: relevant in the Y2K tasting of 17 March 2020.)
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk »

jdaw1 wrote: 23:02 Sun 08 Mar 2020 It seems that we lack an abbreviation for Quinta Vale Dona Maria. Any objection to ‘DM’? (Separately, www.quintavaledonamaria.com seems to be not working.)

(Cross link: relevant in the Y2K tasting of 17 March 2020.)
I'd be more inclined to VD or VDM.
We already have DB, and DM could be misconstued as another Dow quinta perhaps?
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by jdaw1 »

But both ‘VD’ and ‘VDM’ could equally be misconstrued as a Vesuvio sub-quinta.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I prefer VDM. Although I take the point that VDM could be construed as a Vesuvio sub-quinta there are no single quinta wines made by Vesuvio whereas there are single quinta wines made by Dow — Bomfim and Senhora da Ribeira being the two current examples.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by flash_uk »

AHB wrote: 09:14 Mon 09 Mar 2020 I prefer VDM. Although I take the point that VDM could be construed as a Vesuvio sub-quinta there are no single quinta wines made by Vesuvio whereas there are single quinta wines made by Dow — Bomfim and Senhora da Ribeira being the two current examples.
Yes given Julian’s observation about Vesuvio, VDM would be better as it uses all the letters of the shipper, and it’s more unlikely a Vesuvio off-shoot will appear with initials DM than with D.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

DM could, perhaps, cause some confusion by being misconstrued as Dow Malvedos. I'm definitely voting for VDM.
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.

2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
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Re: Port House abbreviations

Post by PhilW »

I'd agree with VDM as most obvious choice, and to my mind no more confusing with potential Vesuvio single quinta as Gould Campbell GC is with potential new Graham's single quinta (i.e. we already cope with this issue). Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?
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