Upside-Down Union Jacks

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jdaw1
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 14:59 Mon 23 Jun 2014

flash_uk wrote:I suspect Julian has critiqued more Union Jack hoists than I have, but what is it that is wrong with the top one? If one assumes that it is hoisted on the right (where the vertical exhaust pipe could be construed as a flagpole), then isn't it OK?
So it is trailing ahead of the pole as the lorry drives forward? I suppose it works if we pretend that the lorry is reversing very very fast.

That’s a no.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by flash_uk » 15:00 Mon 23 Jun 2014

jdaw1 wrote:
flash_uk wrote:I suspect Julian has critiqued more Union Jack hoists than I have, but what is it that is wrong with the top one? If one assumes that it is hoisted on the right (where the vertical exhaust pipe could be construed as a flagpole), then isn't it OK?
So it is trailing ahead of the pole as the lorry drives forward? I suppose it works if we pretend that the lorry is reversing very very fast.

That’s a no.
Well in that case the other side is wrong.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Glenn E. » 16:21 Mon 23 Jun 2014

Viewed from the driver's side of the lorry, with the flag pole in "front" of the lorry, is it not correct? In which case what you're looking at is a common usage. In fact the United States Army does the same with the US flag.

When you look at the lorry from the lorry's left side, you're looking at the back of the flag.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by flash_uk » 16:40 Mon 23 Jun 2014

It all depends on where you consider the "flagpole" to be. If it is at the front of the cab, then both sides are wrong. If at the back then both sides are correct.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by PopulusTremula » 16:52 Mon 23 Jun 2014

Would the issue go away if Scotland were to secede from the Union, i.e. would the flag become fool proof? If so, we may just have stumbled on the only instantly verifiable argument in favour of secession.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 17:00 Mon 23 Jun 2014

flash_uk wrote:If at the back then both sides are correct.
If at the back, the flag would flutter backwards, away from the cab.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Glenn E. » 17:25 Mon 23 Jun 2014

flash_uk wrote:It all depends on where you consider the "flagpole" to be. If it is at the front of the cab, then both sides are wrong. If at the back then both sides are correct.
Oh right, yes. It took me a second to figure out why, but once I pictured it as a US flag it was blatantly obvious. It isn't just the flow of the flag that matters, but also which side the (implied) flagpole is on.

You'd never put the flagpole on the stripes side of the US flag - it belongs next to the stars. Same problem here.

My guess is that someone out-clevered themselves with the design.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by flash_uk » 17:41 Mon 23 Jun 2014

jdaw1 wrote:
flash_uk wrote:If at the back then both sides are correct.
If at the back, the flag would flutter backwards, away from the cab.
Depends which way the truck is moving. But assuming your proposition that the truck is moving forward and thus the flags are hung from the front of the cab, then both pictures show a flag hung incorrectly. The top picture cannot be "wrong" and the bottom picture be "right".

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 09:08 Sat 28 Jun 2014

Our brave heroes should perhaps know better...
2014-06-28 09.03.57.jpg
2014-06-28 09.03.57.jpg (46.59 KiB) Viewed 3006 times
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn


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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 19:56 Wed 23 Jul 2014

The Lambeth Country Show, in Brockwell Park, on Sunday 20th July 2014.

Good pork, bad buns, worse sign-making.
Image

One might also ask about the presence, in the country that did more than any other to abolish slavery, of the flag of the Confederate States of America. And why the Union jack and the Scottish Saltire, but no Saint George?
Image

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by mpij » 20:58 Wed 23 Jul 2014

PopulusTremula wrote:Would the issue go away if Scotland were to secede from the Union, i.e. would the flag become fool proof? If so, we may just have stumbled on the only instantly verifiable argument in favour of secession.

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It would, however, ruin this thread.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by PopulusTremula » 22:17 Wed 23 Jul 2014

mpij wrote:
PopulusTremula wrote:Would the issue go away if Scotland were to secede from the Union, i.e. would the flag become fool proof? If so, we may just have stumbled on the only instantly verifiable argument in favour of secession.

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It would, however, ruin this thread.
I'm sure other bugbears could be found to bring excitement into our lives...

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 00:17 Thu 24 Jul 2014

mpij wrote:
PopulusTremula wrote:Would the issue go away if Scotland were to secede from the Union, i.e. would the flag become fool proof? If so, we may just have stumbled on the only instantly verifiable argument in favour of secession.
It would, however, ruin this thread.
Indeed. But I think it is now a very real danger. I had dinner this evening with a fellow Scot who has been fiercely in the "No" camp until now. He, who unlike me has a vote, has now switched to "Yes" on the grounds that no one bothered to make a decent argument for "No". He will not be alone.

More worryingly, I watched the opening ceremony of the Empire Games this evening having had absolutely no previous interest in the event. I found myself smiling in a warm and fuzzy kind of way when the Scottish team emerged and also when the masses in Cetic Park (otherwise known as Paradise) wailed away about the bonny, bonny banks of Loch Lommond to the accompaniment of that cute violinist in the blue dress. I, an absolutely "No" man, felt a stirring of nationalism in the depths of my gut for a few moments that many others would have felt. I recognised the danger, but will everyone else? Is this event perilously close to an important vote and capable of influencing the decision? Time will tell.

I still say "No".
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 00:31 Thu 24 Jul 2014

Christ Derek, calm down man. These games were always going to stir up a bit of Hoots Mon. But people are not idiots. They do understand that bread and circuses will not pay their mortgage. Let's stay calm.

No. It has to be no.
Daniel J.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 00:32 Thu 24 Jul 2014

In the years when I used to go to the Lambeth County [sic] Show, the event was attended by black and white alike. I am surprised that nobody made a complaint about that confederate flag.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 00:37 Thu 24 Jul 2014

djewesbury wrote:Christ Derek
It has been said before. My mother's neighbour was convinced I had a leaning to the Priesthood.

But I am now seriously worried that this could all go horribly wrong.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 00:46 Thu 24 Jul 2014

DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:Christ Derek
It has been said before. My mother's neighbour was convinced I had a leaning to the Priesthood.

But I am now seriously worried that this could all go horribly wrong.
No.
Say it. No.
Say it to everyone you meet who lives in Scotland. No.
No.

JDAW's excellent article on Scotland after the Pound has been doing the rounds of everyone I know.

Why, in seeking a new constitutional arrangement, did New Labour make such a pig's ear of it and not go for all-out federalism of the type that's so successful here in Germany? This seems to be the only answer now after the referendum, whatever the result. Anything else produces yet more confusion, dissatisfaction and inequality.

A little note: Northern Ireland currently costs the British (as in, English, Welsh and Scottish) taxpayer £16bn a year. Subtract Scotland from that, get rid of the Barnett formula, and what's the future for the North? Nobody seems to have told us; and the 'politicians' are still doing colouring-in, so they can't be expected to know.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 00:53 Thu 24 Jul 2014

djewesbury wrote:JDAW's excellent article on Scotland after the Pound has been doing the rounds of everyone I know.
OK, so you, me, Owen and AHB have read JDAW's article. Something to bear in mind is that more than 50% of Scottish voters are either in the public sector or old. That doesn't represent good odds for rational thought. {controversial card played}
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 01:04 Thu 24 Jul 2014

In that case, they should definitely, unquestionably vote no, and forestall Salmond's race to the bottom (with concrete boots, and their pensions in his pockets).
Daniel J.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 01:09 Thu 24 Jul 2014

DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:In that case, they should definitely, unquestionably vote no, and forestall Salmond's race to the bottom (with concrete boots, and their pensions in his pockets).
+1
+1
+1
+1
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 01:12 Thu 24 Jul 2014

DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:In that case, they should definitely, unquestionably vote no, and forestall Salmond's race to the bottom (with concrete boots, and their pensions in his pockets).
+1
+1
+1
+1
Wow, maybe it's because I've been sitting at my computer all day, and I'm sitting here listening to Gene Clark, but that's like, really trippy man…
Total mise-en-abîme, baby..
Daniel J.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by LGTrotter » 01:18 Thu 24 Jul 2014

This Scottish thing will be close. And when things get close...

I think that Derek's panic may not be unfounded.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 01:19 Thu 24 Jul 2014

In case it isn't clear, I hate Alex Salamander in the same way as the mythical version of William Wallace hated Edward Longshanks. Hate is a strong word, and one that my mother told me I should never use against anything or anyone apart from 'long-tails" (rats). Salamungo is the worst of the worst of the worst. Worse than a long-tail.

Are we off topic yet?
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 01:23 Thu 24 Jul 2014

DRT wrote:In case it isn't clear, I hate Alex Salamander in the same way as the mythical version of William Wallace hated Edward Longshanks. Hate is a strong word, and one that my mother told me I should never use against anything or anyone apart from 'long-tails" (rats). Salamungo is the worst of the worst of the worst. Worse than a long-tail.

Are we off topic yet?
No.
Daniel J.
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