Upside-Down Union Jacks

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DRT
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 22:25 Tue 14 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:Please, come to Belfast, where we can do a tour of upside-down Union Flegs.
Just as the Apostrophe Crimes thread pardons those whose first language is not English, this thread pardons those who choose to intentionally hang their Union Flags* upside-down.


* I have only just noticed the error in the thread title.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 22:31 Tue 14 May 2013

DRT wrote:* I have only just noticed the error in the thread title.
The term has been sanctioned by Parliament, and the Admiralty. See the discussion starting with the fourth post in this thread.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 23:01 Tue 14 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:* I have only just noticed the error in the thread title.
The term has been sanctioned by Parliament, and the Admiralty. See the discussion starting with the fourth post in this thread.
My reading of that debate is that you lost the argument, even though the others in the debate neglected to drive their arguments to a conclusion.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 01:48 Wed 15 May 2013

DRT wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:* I have only just noticed the error in the thread title.
The term has been sanctioned by Parliament, and the Admiralty. See the discussion starting with the fourth post in this thread.
My reading of that debate is that you lost the argument, even though the others in the debate neglected to drive their arguments to a conclusion.
And once again, I say, come to Belfast, where we can discuss this in full and with people who really care!
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 00:21 Thu 16 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:And once again, I say, come to Belfast, where we can discuss this in full and with people who really care!
In order to really appreciate the experience, do we have to have a power shower for half an hour?
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 00:34 Thu 16 May 2013

DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:And once again, I say, come to Belfast, where we can discuss this in full and with people who really care!
In order to really appreciate the experience, do we have to have a power shower for half an hour?
It's not just advisable, it's compulsory!
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by AHB » 12:58 Thu 16 May 2013

DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:And once again, I say, come to Belfast, where we can discuss this in full and with people who really care!
In order to really appreciate the experience, do we have to have a power shower for half an hour?
With a mirror?
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by TLW » 01:15 Fri 17 May 2013

AHB wrote:
DRT wrote:
djewesbury wrote:And once again, I say, come to Belfast, where we can discuss this in full and with people who really care!
In order to really appreciate the experience, do we have to have a power shower for half an hour?
With a mirror?
Would likely result in a substantial increase in port consumption immediately thereafter.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 22:04 Sat 25 May 2013

In the BBC’s In pictures: Liverpool commemorates Battle of the Atlantic, go forward to the sixth slide, which has the caption ‟Standard bearers for the procession to the Merchant Navy memorial gathered outside the Cunard Building in Liverpool.”

Please could somebody else comment on the left-most flag. Does it match the proper arrangement of the Red Ensign?

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 23:02 Sat 25 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:In the BBC’s In pictures: Liverpool commemorates Battle of the Atlantic, go forward to the sixth slide, which has the caption ‟Standard bearers for the procession to the Merchant Navy memorial gathered outside the Cunard Building in Liverpool.”

Please could somebody else comment on the left-most flag. Does it match the proper arrangement of the Red Ensign?
I think it is fair to say that it is impossible to tell. I find that old chaps like these tend to be the last to be fooled. Also these look like rather official ensigns, not stitched by Eileen in accounts the night before.

I think we should ask Phil what he thinks.

EDIT: I think we should ask Phil to ask the D66 what it thinks.
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Re: Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Glenn E. » 06:15 Sun 26 May 2013

jdaw1 wrote:In the BBC’s In pictures: Liverpool commemorates Battle of the Atlantic, go forward to the sixth slide, which has the caption ‟Standard bearers for the procession to the Merchant Navy memorial gathered outside the Cunard Building in Liverpool.”

Please could somebody else comment on the left-most flag. Does it match the proper arrangement of the Red Ensign?
On my phone it appears not. The gold fringe visible down the center appears to be the staff side of the flag. If so, then the orientation visible just to its left appears to be reversed as that should be the "back" side of the flag, but appears to be the front side orientation.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by PhilW » 10:08 Sun 26 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:In the BBC’s In pictures: Liverpool commemorates Battle of the Atlantic, go forward to the sixth slide, which has the caption ‟Standard bearers for the procession to the Merchant Navy memorial gathered outside the Cunard Building in Liverpool.”

Please could somebody else comment on the left-most flag. Does it match the proper arrangement of the Red Ensign?
I think it is fair to say that it is impossible to tell. I find that old chaps like these tend to be the last to be fooled. Also these look like rather official ensigns, not stitched by Eileen in accounts the night before.

I think we should ask Phil what he thinks.

EDIT: I think we should ask Phil to ask the D66 what it thinks.
Last night was a VERY good night :D

I think the flag is correct; The most visible vertical length of gold braid on the left hand flag in the image appears to be connected to the [small metal figure on top of the pole; what are these called?] and then go along the length of the union jack part of the flag, which would make this the braid along the top edge of the flag when flown with flagpole vertical. With the flag pole at left and this braid across the top, the top right corner of the union jack can be seen to have the thinner white band above the thicker in this corner, making this the correct orientation. Yes, this matches the supplied link to Red Ensign.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 13:27 Sun 26 May 2013

People seem to understand why it might appear dodgy, but as Daniel says, ‟old chaps like these tend to be the last to be fooled”. And Phil’s reasoning convinces. So it must be an illusion of the folds.

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Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 14:02 Sun 26 May 2013

PhilW wrote: Last night was a VERY good night :D
How many glasses of water did you drink?
PhilW wrote: [small metal figure on top of the pole; what are these called?]
I'd have said finial but the Interweb seems to think it is called 'the top'. Standards are falling (geddit??)
jdaw1 wrote:People seem to understand why it might appear dodgy, but as Daniel says, ‟old chaps like these tend to be the last to be fooled”. And Phil’s reasoning convinces. So it must be an illusion of the folds.
I presume it would be very difficult to get a red ensign wrong. This is based on a presumption regarding the type of people likely to be making them, or needing to, and also the availability of 'already-assembled' ensigns, obviating the need to construct one's own.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 14:31 Sun 26 May 2013

djewesbury wrote:I presume it would be very difficult to get a red ensign wrong. This is based on a presumption regarding the type of people likely to be making them, or needing to, and also the availability of 'already-assembled' ensigns, obviating the need to construct one's own.
Which is why my observation was so tentative. It looked wrong, but just couldn’t be.

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 22:54 Wed 29 May 2013

It's not wrong. The bottom half is the most visible part and is correct. The folded mess at the top is what it is, a folded mess.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Glenn E. » 23:14 Wed 29 May 2013

PhilW wrote:I think the flag is correct; The most visible vertical length of gold braid on the left hand flag in the image appears to be connected to the [small metal figure on top of the pole; what are these called?] and then go along the length of the union jack part of the flag, which would make this the braid along the top edge of the flag when flown with flagpole vertical. With the flag pole at left and this braid across the top, the top right corner of the union jack can be seen to have the thinner white band above the thicker in this corner, making this the correct orientation. Yes, this matches the supplied link to Red Ensign.
Now that I'm on a computer and not my phone, I concur.
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Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 22:10 Sun 02 Jun 2013

ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21370207282.142844.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21370207282.142844.jpg (34.04 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
Are any of these upside down?
(From the Government Art Collection, Tom Philips, screenprint and mixed media, 1976)
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 00:59 Tue 04 Jun 2013

Apostrophe Crimes does not judge those whose first language is not English, so this thread should not judge those whose choice of artistic expression is not a classical style.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 21:32 Sat 08 Jun 2013

{Please gloss over the the circumstances under which I noticed this}

The producers of Britain's Got Talent have let themselves down this evening...
Screen Shot 2013-06-08 at 21.27.04.png
Screen Shot 2013-06-08 at 21.27.04.png (572.86 KiB) Viewed 2952 times
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by jdaw1 » 11:48 Mon 22 Jul 2013

[url=http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/upside-down_union_jacks.html]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Monday 22nd July 2013, from the BBC story entitled ‟Royal baby: Pregnant Kate taken to hospital in labour”.
Image
Journalists were not the only ones waiting outside the Lindo Wing. Royal supporter Terry Hutt has been camped outside for nearly two weeks

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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by Glenn E. » 16:41 Mon 22 Jul 2013

jdaw1 wrote:
[url=http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/upside-down_union_jacks.html]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Monday 22nd July 2013, from the BBC story entitled ‟Royal baby: Pregnant Kate taken to hospital in labour”.
Image
Journalists were not the only ones waiting outside the Lindo Wing. Royal supporter Terry Hutt has been camped outside for nearly two weeks
Clearly the flag is intended to be viewed from the bench, as the one (partially) draped over the back of the bench is also displayed correctly as viewed from the bench. :roll:
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by AHB » 06:44 Wed 24 Jul 2013

I think you can quite clearly see the sleeve for the lanyard on the right hand side of the nearest flag, this taking precedence over the general assumption of the flagpole on the left. I would therefore argue that this flag is correctly displayed.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by DRT » 08:46 Wed 24 Jul 2013

AHB wrote:I think you can quite clearly see the sleeve for the lanyard on the right hand side of the nearest flag, this taking precedence over the general assumption of the flagpole on the left. I would therefore argue that this flag is correctly displayed.
But that presupposes that the corner nearest the gentleman's elbow is the top of the lanyard. If it is the bottom, the flag is upside down in more than one sense.
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Re: Upside-Down Union Jacks

Post by djewesbury » 10:07 Sun 13 Oct 2013

The Chief Vexillologist has pronounced on 'jacks' and 'flags'. There is officially no difference.
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