Vexillological matters

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jdaw1
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Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 12:03 Tue 01 Sep 2015

This thread is to hold matters relating to flags, vexillology, and heraldry.

(On which subject also see 2011 thread entitled The Arms of the Marquess of Pombal.)

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jdaw1
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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 12:03 Tue 01 Sep 2015

New Zealand has decided that its flag looks too much like that of Australia. (Yes, yes, Indonesia-Monaco, Austria-Latvia, Romania-Chad, Moldova-Andorra.) So there is to be a referendum to decide a new flag.
What say the TPF experts?

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by PhilW » 13:01 Tue 01 Sep 2015

Of those four I'd select the last one, though in the previous round of 40 designs I preferred the same design but with different colours (with the black background to the stars, and red above). I like the fern leaf, and little likelihood of hanging it the wrong way up :)

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jdaw1
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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 13:03 Tue 01 Sep 2015

PhilW wrote:and little likelihood of hanging it the wrong way up
That comment has changed my preference.

The second one has one fewer colours than the fourth — red top-left echoing the centre of the stars. If they must change, that wins for me.

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DRT
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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by DRT » 13:26 Tue 01 Sep 2015

Black is a colour* that many people associate with New Zealand so I think whichever design they choose it will include black.

I like the first one - it throws away the shackles of imperialism and removes all similarity to the Australian flag.

* Anyone who feels the need to argue that black isn't a colour is invited to start a new thread.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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jdaw1
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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 14:21 Tue 01 Sep 2015

DRT wrote:the shackles of imperialism
Lordy! Is New Zealand really shackled by imperialism? Indeed, has New Zealand ever been shackled by imperialism?

(And yes, in heraldry there are two ‘metals’, silver and gold, and everything is a colour. Just as, in snooker, white and red aren’t colours.)

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by PhilW » 14:42 Tue 01 Sep 2015

Interestingly there doesn't really seem to have been much enthusiasm for change from the general public in New Zealand; if anything there seems to be a preference to keep the current flag; I wonder if that will change now that the choice has been narrowed.

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by djewesbury » 16:20 Tue 01 Sep 2015

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:the shackles of imperialism
Lordy! Is New Zealand really shackled by imperialism? Indeed, has New Zealand ever been shackled by imperialism?
I presumed that Derek was including all types of colonialism, settler-colonialism, rentier freebooting and island-collecting under the more expedient catch-all term 'imperialism'. Whether you like those things or not is entirely a question of your personal interpretation. They make very expensive shackles now, I'm told.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

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jdaw1
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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 16:23 Tue 01 Sep 2015

djewesbury wrote:I presumed that Derek was including all types of colonialism, settler-colonialism, rentier freebooting and island-collecting under the more expedient catch-all term 'imperialism'. Whether you like those things or not is entirely a question of your personal interpretation. They make very expensive shackles now, I'm told.
Ahh, so, as part of the de-imperialisation of the flag, Tokelau is to be liberated. Very good sir.

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by djewesbury » 17:05 Tue 01 Sep 2015

jdaw1 wrote:
djewesbury wrote:I presumed that Derek was including all types of colonialism, settler-colonialism, rentier freebooting and island-collecting under the more expedient catch-all term 'imperialism'. Whether you like those things or not is entirely a question of your personal interpretation. They make very expensive shackles now, I'm told.
Ahh, so, as part of the de-imperialisation of the flag, Tokelau is to be liberated. Very good sir.
I see you are a relativist, or at least a practitioner of the fallacy of relative privation. In Northern Ireland we call that Whataboutery.
I can't offer you any philosophical, moral or ethical guidance or interpretations in this area – you'll have to go to Fr. Turnbull for that. But he has a busy schedule, and your soul is deepest sable.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by DRT » 13:55 Tue 15 Dec 2015

"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by jdaw1 » 09:56 Thu 24 Mar 2016

BBC: New Zealand votes to keep flag in referendum. But “A final result taking into account late ballots will be announced next Wednesday.” Also see NZ Herald.

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Re: Vexillological matters

Post by flash_uk » 10:05 Thu 24 Mar 2016

jdaw1 wrote:BBC: New Zealand votes to keep flag in referendum. But “A final result taking into account late ballots will be announced next Wednesday.” Also see NZ Herald.
Yet another referendum result favours the status quo.

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