Bordeaux Recommendations

[DRT]

Added to the Seckfords stash yesterday for the extortionate sum of £125 IB...

1995 Chateaux Charlemagne (Canon Fronsac).JPG (12.43 KiB) Viewed 6420 times

Will be extracted sooner rather than later for current drinking.

[djewesbury]

Please sir, where?

[DRT]

Please sir, where?

Seckfords. They only had one case.

Street Wines are selling the same wine at £19 per bottle including duty and VAT, so £5 per bottle more than I paid.

[DRT]

Another case for the retirement stock: Chateau Batailley 1998 - purchase in an online auction for the equivalent of £280 IB

[LGTrotter]

This morning I received the 2013 claret offer from the wine society who are usually the last to report in. Not having tasted any but having looked at the offers and read them from the right hand column to the left I can thoroughly recommend them as a really good laugh. And next year I can taste them and they will be cheaper.

[DRT]

The discounting has already started...

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[Alex Bridgeman]

I promised some recommendations for value Bordeaux. All of these are wines that I have enjoyed in the past, which are worthy of at least 10 years in the cellar and will reward longer cellaring:

Medoc
Château de By
Château La Cardonne
Château Greysac (particularly recommended)
Château Livran
Château Loudenne (above average)
Château Potensac (needs londer in the cellar)
Château Sigognac
Château La Tour de By

Haut Medoc
Château La Lagune (expensive)
Château Belgrave
Château Cantemerle (one I particularly like)
Château Caronne Ste-Gemme
Château Cissac (one I personally avoid having never enjoyed a wine from them in the eighties, but they might have improved since then)
Château Coufran
Château Lanessan
Château Liversan
Château Sénéjac
Château Sociando-Mallet (highly recommended)

Margaux
Château Margaux (hey, you can afford to aim high...)
Château Rauzan-Ségla
Château Durfort-Vivens
Château Lascombes
Château Brane-Cantenac
Château Kirwan
Château d'Issan
Château Giscours
Château Malescot St. Exupéry (often good value)
Château Cantenac-Brown
Château Boyd-Cantenac
Château Palmer (but usually horribly expensive)
Château Pouget
Château Prieuré-Lichine (highly recommended)
Château Dauzac
Château Monbrison
Château Siran (strong recommendation)
Château Labégorce-Zédé (very strong recommendation)
Château La Tour de Mons
Château La Gurgue
Château Labégorce
Château d'Angludet (very strong recommendation - one of my favourite wines for everyday drinking when not drinking port)

Saint Julien
Most producers from this appelation are very good, but expensive so this list below only includes those I would normally expect to see represent good value
Château Ducru-Beaucaillou
Château Léoville-Poyferré
Château Langoa-Barton
Château Beychevelle
Château Saint-Pierre
Château Talbot (expensive, but my favourite producer from the region)
Château Gloria

Saint Estephe
Although you've not named any wines you've liked in the past from this appelation, try:
Château Phélan Ségur
Château Les Ormes de Pez
Château Haut-Marbuzet
to see if you like the style

Pauillac
Tends to be expensive from association with Latour, Lafite and Mouton, but try:
Château Duhart-Milon
Château Pontet-Canet
Château Batailley
Château d'Armailhac (previously known as Mouton Baronne Philippe)
Château Haut-Bages-Libéral
Château Clerc-Milon
Château Pibran

Moulis en Medoc
Château Chasse-Spleen
Château Poujeaux
Château Maucaillou
Moulin à Vent

I also enjoy wines from Fronsac, Canon-Fronsac, Entre-Deux-Mers, Bourg et Blaye but don't drink enough from these regions to really make any recommendation.

[DRT]

Wow!

I will ask Santa for a case of each

Thank you.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Wow!

I will ask Santa for a case of each

Thank you.

Is that one of each from each vintage of the last 25 years?

Seriously, I do recommend buying a range of vintages and not to buy lots from recent vintages. There are plenty of sources of overall vintage quality, but I would suggest:
Top
2010, 2009, 2005, 2000, 1996, 1990, 1989, 1986, 1982
Try before you buy - has a relatively poor reputation so may represent good value for money if you like the style
2013, 2007, 2004, 2002, 1999, 1997, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1987, 1984, 1983, 1981, 1980

[djewesbury]

This thread should be printed on a card that one can carry in one's wallet.

[smisse]

Do you have any recommendations for 2013? As it is for my youngest, I would need something that will last at least 20-25 years. For the oldest I bought Sociando Mallet (2010) but it appears that 2013 is a difficult year...

Any recommendation from other regions is welcome as well. Budget 20-30€ per bottle.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[LGTrotter]

Do you have any recommendations for 2013? Any recommendation from other regions is welcome as well. Budget 20-30€

My recommendation would be to avoid 2013 bordeaux like a plague of rabid dogs.

I hear they made some decent port in 2011 and that should have been bottled in 2013, so it will have 2013 on the label somewhere.

[AW77]

This thread should be printed on a card that one can carry in one's wallet.

This is indeed a very helpful thread.
Perhaps we could start a "Burgundy Recommendations" thread as well ????

[Alex Bridgeman]

My only recommendation for Burgundy is that it is so confusing that it should be left to the experts!

[LGTrotter]

This thread should be printed on a card that one can carry in one's wallet.

This is indeed a very helpful thread.
Perhaps we could start a "Burgundy Recommendations" thread as well ????

Too much of a minefield I fancy. I tried (while intoxicated) and Derek was keen (while intoxicated?). Wiser counsels prevailed in the morning. Lord Flashman hinted at some familiarity with the topic...

[djewesbury]

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

Agreed. *ducks even lower*

If I want 15% fruit-bomb beasts I can buy Auzzie stuff for £7-£10. If I want finesse I can buy French. I don't need tannic monsters from the Douro that need 30 years in bottle that are as weak as 14-15% - that is what Port is for.

I've waited till now to say it but I think you are missing out on some good things. Not all Douro wines are so massive and chewy and fearsome. The Pombal de Vesuvio is fine, well-balanced stuff.

[DRT]

Cos they're awful. *ducks*

Agreed. *ducks even lower*

If I want 15% fruit-bomb beasts I can buy Auzzie stuff for £7-£10. If I want finesse I can buy French. I don't need tannic monsters from the Douro that need 30 years in bottle that are as weak as 14-15% - that is what Port is for.

I've waited till now to say it but I think you are missing out on some good things. Not all Douro wines are so massive and chewy and fearsome. The Pombal de Vesuvio is fine, well-balanced stuff.

But it still needs two decades in the cellar. I don't disagree that there are nice DOC wines coming from the Douro, but when I drink them I always find myself wondering whether or not they would have been even better with a large dash of brandy going in at the time they were fermented.

[djewesbury]

I have extracted the full list of Derek's recent purchases, as well as Owen and Alex's recommendations, and saved them all in one new note accessible on my iPhone. I am hoping that with time and money I can grow this into something approximating Flash's port spreadsheet.

[DRT]

I have extracted the full list of Derek's recent purchases, as well as Owen and Alex's recommendations, and saved them all in one new note accessible on my iPhone. I am hoping that with time and money I can grow this into something approximating Flash's port spreadsheet.

Perhaps someone could write a book detailing evidence of every Claret produced in every vintage from the beginning of Claret, with evidence?

[djewesbury]

Yes that would be a worthwhile and not at all Sisyphean task. Perhaps start with something simpler though, like every port vintage ever declared.

[djewesbury]

Has anyone drunk Chapelle de Potensac? Does it fall into Owen's category of bad value cheap Bordeaux or is it a worthy second wine? A good daily drinker? The oldest seems to be 02 but perhaps it doesn't need much ageing?

[LGTrotter]

Has anyone drunk Chapelle de Potensac? Does it fall into Owen's category of bad value cheap Bordeaux or is it a worthy second wine? A good daily drinker? The oldest seems to be 02 but perhaps it doesn't need much ageing?

No, but I would counsel caution, 02 is overall the worst vintage of the 2000 to 2010 decade (for my money), I am assuming this is the second wine of Potensac which for all the kindly reviews from Broadbent (I forget who this used to be owned by, the Prince de Polgniac or some such, Broadbent always was a sucker for royalty, bit of a staunch republican myself) I was uninspired and that was the main wine from better years than 02. I think it got sold to some conglomerate in the early noughties, I seem to have heard it had a bit of a wobble around this time.
I think if you consult my card you will see I suggest second wines in good years. If you look on the reverse of your now laminated card you will see even Alex urges caution and a taste for lesser vintages.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Perhaps I should nail my colours to the mast. I dislike and do not recommend second (or even third) label wines where these are trading on the name of the main label. Either they are too expensive (first growths) or they are disappointing in terms of quality.

If you are after a bargain you need to find the declassified wines. I recommend the Wine Society's Exhibtion Pauillac.

[DRT]

Perhaps I should nail my colours to the mast. I dislike and do not recommend second (or even third) label wines where these are trading on the name of the main label. Either they are too expensive (first growths) or they are disappointing in terms of quality.

I read somewhere that there is a distinct difference between a "second wine" and a "second label" in that the former is made from the worst grapes of the premium lots and the latter is a wine made from lots that are not used in the premier cru. Is that true?

I can see why a "second wine" might not be too appealing, particularly in non-classic vintages.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to find a definitive source that separates these two types of wine into different lists.

The wine that Daniel enquired about is a "second wine". Stephen Brook (Parker's nemesis) describes the premier cru from that estate thus: "the run of vintages from 200-2005 is uniformly excellent: big, ripe wines with swagger and broad shoulders; not exactly elegant, but lush and concentrated and powerful. The 2006 is lighter".

At £11 I think a bottle of the second wine is worth a punt just in case it bucks the trend of mediocrity.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I am all in favour of trying before you buy. At £11 per bottle it is worth trying a bottle before buying.

But I really can't make it more obvious why I have persistently recommended the Wine Society's Exhibition Pauillac...