The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

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LGTrotter
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by LGTrotter »

Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

DRT wrote:What Daniel described strikes at the root of the problem. I am quite certain that the great unwashed element in the Yes camp will believe that being an in independent Scot means not having to be British.
I know exactly what you mean but I think there's a big difference between 'Britain' and 'British Isles'. One has always been the name of the island you are on. The other is arguably, at least, a term describing a power relationship developed over hundreds of years and only relatively recently being re-thought. If the Scots want to pretend that Scotland is not on an island called Britain, good luck to them.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

We agree entirely - I just think there are a couple of million people with their faces painted blue who haven't quite realised that reality yet.

For the record, I am firmly of the view that the archipelago known as The British Isles includes a very large emerald coloured island, but I can see why that geographic reality is politically unacceptable to the unenlightened.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

LGTrotter wrote:Dare I mention the 'democratic deficit' which is driving the yes campaign. I think the idea of never having to do politics with anyone at Westminster ever again would gain traction in not a few of the provinces.
Don't be fooled by the "we hate the Tories" mob. In my youth the Salmonites were known as "The Scottish Tories". Regardless of whether they are voting yes or no there will remain a deep distrust of politicians whether they are in Holyrood or Westminster or Brussels.

My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.

Betfair paid out on No votes today.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

Paid out? How?
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

If you placed a bet with Betfair on a no vote they have paid out the winnings. Google it.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

Just did. Blimey.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by flash_uk »

DRT wrote:My resolve is strengthening with every minute that goes by. I am now thinking 65/35 is a distinct possibility.
I tend to agree. Last night I was thinking 58:42. Sadly, even if No carries the day, I suspect we are in for months and years of tedious devolution debates, which in the end (over say 10-15 years) might prove to be worse than a straight Yes.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

Indeed.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

My last post directed at Daniel.

It will only be drawn out if it is close. Which is why it needs not to be.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by AW77 »

If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by flash_uk »

djewesbury wrote:
AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
You're bringing up a third usage (the nationality, as opposed to either of the geographical usages) and a separate problem (the English). Complicated. Boggy ground.
Yes indeed. There are many Welsh, Scots and N Irish who shun the idea that they are British. And many also who rejoice that they are British.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by flash_uk »

I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this :D
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

AW77 wrote:If I as a foreigner am allowed a remark (no offence intended): I guess that one of the roots of the problem is that "British" was for centuries equated as "English" not as "English + Scottish + Welsh + Northern Irish". I think it's good that "British" is now a more inclusive term.
"British" was in use long before England existed as a single state. The problem you allude to is actually the reverse in that "Britains" have for two centuries or more been commonly known as "English" throughout the rest of the world. That's the bit that causes the hackles to rise on the back of the Celtic necks.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

flash_uk wrote:I think I am right in saying that we have Wales, England and N Ireland represented next week at the Pre Harvest tasting. If only Derek were attending then we would also have Scotland, and could have a right old debate in person about all of this :D
I elect Wolfgang as my proxy.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!

Sensible people that I have spoken to today are now seriously worried that the nationalistic frenzy is pushing this in the wrong direction.

Surely common sense will prevail!!
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by jdaw1 »

DRT wrote:
DRT wrote:Rab McGabe
A colleague at work just received a message from a friend who turned up to cast his no vote only to find that someone else had voted for him. My words might have been closer to the truth than I thought imaginable!
That should be reported to the police, pronto.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Are there UN observers and independent monitors watching the vote and count?
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

Is it too late for placemats?

Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:

The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old

The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich 12 Year Old

Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old

...all in 5cl format.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.
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djewesbury
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by djewesbury »

DRT wrote:Is it too late for placemats?

Four very long days at the office have prevented a visit to my off-licence in St James's so these have been procured from Sainsbury's Local in Victoria:

The Balvenie DoubleWood 12 Year Old

The Balvenie DoubleWood 17 Year Old

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich 12 Year Old

Glenfiddich Rich Oak 14 Year Old

Glenfiddich The Solera 15 Year Old

...all in 5cl format.
It is NEVER too late for placemats, good God man, we're not savages. Just give me ten minutes.
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Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum, 18th Sept 2014

Post by DRT »

djewesbury wrote:
DRT wrote:It has been. Apparently the polling station were handing out voting papers with the only identity check being "what's your name and address?" No ID required!
Has anyone bothered to tell the BBC? Seriously!
seems to be localised incompetence rather than Mugabe-style fraud.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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