There is a 20-bottle Nebuchadnezzar of Dow 1896 for sale by Boisdale of Belgravia at £10,000. Perhaps we could share it?
The next post, the second of this thread, describes what we know about the provenance of this monster, some of which was discussed in an earlier thread elsewhere (pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).
Here is what we have been told about the Nebuchadnezzar of Dow 1896 which is on the wine list of Boisdale of Belgravia at a price of £10,000:
Originally at a stately home in Scotland there were many bottles of Dow 1896;
Twenty of these were rebottled into a Nebuchadnezzar in the 1920s;
Which wasn’t drunk at the planned 70th birthday as the birthday boy was ill or died;
About this time, perhaps before perhaps after the rebottling, the family moved to Abbey Leisk in Ireland;
In 1977 Jeffrey Benson bought the Nebuchadnezzar and some of the left-over singles from the owners of Abbey Leisk, where they had been lying on their sides;
He reports that the singles of Dow 1896 were excellent;
Since then the Nebuchadnezzar has lain on its side in JB’s cellar, though was briefly stood up to photograph bottle and seal;
It was sold to Boisdale of Belgravia for their opening party in 2001ish, though the bottle was not moved from JB’s cellar;
Pre-party the restaurant was doing very well, so the party was cancelled;
The author of their [url=http://www.boisdale.co.uk/pdfs/belgravia/WineList12Jan07.pdf]wine list[/url], on the last page, wrote:586 Dow 1896 Nebuchadnezzar (20 bottles) (Level: into bottom neck) 24 hours notice is required to clear this from our bonded warehouse. 4 feet high and 4 stone in weight, this hand blown bottle was ordered for a 70th birthday celebration in the 1920’s. The person in whose honour the dinner was being held sadly died, the party was cancelled, but as fortune would have it the bottle has survived. A phenomenal vintage, excellent provenance and fantastic value at the equivalent of £500.00 per bottle. £10,000.00
Since 1977 the bottle has been stored on its side in the Balham cellar of Jeffrey Benson.
[url=http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?p=13489#13489]Here[/url] jdaw1 wrote:Jeffrey Benson says that the “bottle and seal has been authenticated by Duncan McEuen, director of Christies wine dept who came here with Ranald when purchased. This hand blow bottle is extremely rare and was bottled I was told for a 70th birthday in Ireland which due to illness did not take place. I personally removed this from the cellars of Abbey Leisk in 1977. It weighs 4 stone and stands 4ft high. Although the bottle is completely opaque from shaking the level it would seem to be at the very top shoulder or higher. I have drunk Dow 1896 in bottle last year and it was still youthful.† Apparently it has not left Benson’s cellar since 1977.
“Attached photographs of this monster bottle - the photo of the wax seal did not come out well but it is marked Dow 1896† (picture of bottle and picture of seal).
It hasn’t moved from his cellar since 1977, and I (jdaw1) have been in that cellar: eminently satisfactory† . Apparently the bottle was acquired from where it had lain for decades, and was then lying comfortably on its side.
He says that the bottle is too opaque to see the level, so I’m guessing that [the level seemingly apparent in the photograph] is indeed an optical illusion.
† JB sold me a bottle of Taylor 1900 that was huge, full of classic Taylor backbone, and came from the same Irish cellar. One of the most impressive ports I have ever had the honour of sampling. Though, to be fair, at the same time he sold me a Taylor 1851 that was rank. Other old bottles have been in good condition, others haven’t. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Last edited by jdaw1 on 01:44 Wed 22 Aug 2007, edited 5 times in total.
The plan is that we consume Nebuchadnezzar of Dow 1896 on Monday 28th January 2008, in Boisdale of Belgravia. I am assuming that the maximum amount we would each be willing to spend on port is £333⅓ (implying at least 30 people), and that at a minimum each person would want ⅖ a bottle of port (implying at most 50 people).
Assume an extra £30 each for food, though—of course—that number could be more or less dependent on the team plan.
If there are enough expressions of interest, I will pester the manager to make a more specific plan.
Broadly, when we have enough people, we might do as follows.
I will open a new £-denominated account at HSBC, into which people will pay their share plus a little contingency money.
When enough money is there (plus the $ account, details next), it will be paid to Boisdale and the tasting will definitely happen.
If those who say that they are in then don’t pay, such that there isn’t enough money, then—after a pause to attempt to fill the hole—money will be refunded.
Those who prefer to pay in USD will pay to my personal account in the US.
When there’s enough money in total, £+$, I’ll make a single transfer from that $ personal account to the £ team account, and tell people the effective FX rate achieved (after bank charges). The £ account will then pay Boisdale, as above.
If there is the duck-out problem, the $ can then be returned whence it came without the costs associated with $→£→$.
Afterwards there will be a reckoning, with some form of accounts sent to participants.
If the contingency money isn’t enough, I eat the shortfall.
If there is significant excess, it will be returned after adjusting for confusion caused by the $→£ transfers.
If there is trivial excess, only a few pounds each, I’ll save the transaction costs and keep it myself.
Last edited by jdaw1 on 03:35 Wed 22 Aug 2007, edited 13 times in total.
I seem to recall discussing this elsewhere but I have to reiterate that what looks like being £400+ per head for an offline, drinking 1 bottle of port each that may be dishwater,is is too rich for my blood.
This is obviously a very exciting bottle but I really don't see it as being something that would attract an audience of 30 people wishing to take that level of risk. It is a trophy asset that waiting on a single affluent aquirer to purchase for an offsprings wedding reception or similar. If we all want to taste Dow 1896 we could do so for much less than £100 per head and add a few other vintages to the line-up to ensure a good night to be had by all.
My view of this suggestion is that it would be an all-my-eggs-in-one-basket deal.
Sorry, just being realistic
Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red" Ernest H. Cockburn
1) I do not expect to be in the UK in late Jan - I like to escape the winter in Thailand!
2) 20 bottles seems far too much to consume in a single sitting, so provision for re-bottling some of the contents would seem rational.
3) Although a unique and remarkable bottle, I think the asking price is too high.
This is wine that was effectively racked off it's original sediment when it was about 30 years old - this is pretty much unknown territory - there's a big risk factor here.
4) I would be happy to pay 'on spec' £250 each for three bottles, re-bottled from the original - but not more.
Tom
PS I think a fair valuation for this bottle is around £4K
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
I think it's a fantastic idea, and really hope you'll be able to get a group together to make this work. I, however will not take part. As Derek, I think that £400 p.p. is too much for me, especially considering the risk. Best of luck with the preperation though, and I'm very much looking forward to the write-up and pictures afterwards!
Twenty Twenty wines is ridiculously over priced ..I don't know anyone who buys vintage Port from them and it's unlikely they will ever sell that bottle at the price they are asking! Basically they have just helped to raise the price on old bottles of Port. I know of another store that has a bottle of 1896 Dow for sale at $2000 and they have used "Twenty Twenty" as an example when I asked for a discount on the bottle.
I'm still in for a bottles worth (more or less)
of the Nebuchadnezzar in the UK ...if this plan comes together.
Subject to my diary and travel commitments (I know that I have to make a trip down to Oz in January or February), I'm in for the tasting. I fully accept that there is probably an elevated risk associated with this particular bottle and with its provenance, but this is a chance to taste history and be a part of something unique.
Sean - you probably buy more 100+ year old ports than most of us. Does $1,000 per bottle seem in line with what you would expect to pay for a Dow 1896? I'm interested to know whether there are any alternative views to Tom's.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
AHB wrote:
Sean - you probably buy more 100+ year old ports than most of us. Does $1,000 per bottle seem in line with what you would expect to pay for a Dow 1896? I'm interested to know whether there are any alternative views to Tom's.
Alex
Hey Alex
I can only speak for the US prices I get abused on every year...however I think $1000 is not a horrible price for a bottle's worth of 1896 Dow ...wait ...what am I saying... really $1000 for any wine IS horrible but that's another subject! I have one 1896 Dow I purchased several years ago for about $900 I bought another one last year for a friend at auction for aprox. $1400 I know of only one other store in the US that has one for sale at $2000. I am thinking about splitting it with a friend (if we can get a discount) and drinking it! The problem is that the Nebuchadnezzar was re-bottled from other bottles after 30 years? If this is correct it may be different tasting than a traditional bottling. I would personally roll the dice.
If the place where the Port would be consumed sells food maybe they could offer free dinner? A few back up bottles in case the Dow is no good?
I think judging from the sheer volume of Port in the bottle it will more than likely be excellent. I have opened magnums that looked crappy and they were wonderful and held up way better than any single 750ml bottle.
Someone should obviously inspect the bottle in person before closing the deal.
SEAN C. wrote:Someone should obviously inspect the bottle in person before closing the deal.
jdaw1 wrote:
Since then the Nebuchadnezzar has lain on its side in JB’s cellar, though was briefly stood up to photograph bottle and seal;
I know Benson, and have been in his cellar. I can’t see what could be gained from another picture of it, but Benson would probably oblige if it were really worthwhile.
While I note the concern over the rebottling issue, I think that there are probably a couple of additional points to consider when drawing comparisons to the Fonseca 1920.
Firstly, the 1896 vintage has a reputation for being a very good one - certainly better than the 1920.
Secondly, I suspect that the wine merchants who rebottled the Dow have carried out this exercise more often than Derek (meaning no disrespect to Derek) and so were more likely to be able to ensure that only sound bottles were decanted and the whole process was sterile.
However, in the balance of fairness I will also acknowledge that the merchant who carried out the rebottling in the 1920s would also have been expecting the jeroboam to have been opened and drink almost immediately and so may not have taken the same approach as if they had expected the bottle to be stored for nearly a century.
However, I am still interested in taking part in an event where the bottle gets opened and sharing the costs of such an event.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.