Colheita versus VP

[jdaw1]

This post to hold plans as and when agreed.

Date: TBA.

People:

1. JDAW;
2. BMHR;
3. PW;
4. IDJ;
5. CPR;
6. RLC;
7. SCD.

Bottles:

1. Barão de Vilar white colheita 1989 (PW);
2. Barão de Vilar bottled (Maynard BOB, possibly Cruz) 1989 VP (PW);
3. 1963 Burmester colheita (RLC);
4. 1963 Burmester VP (PW, but ᴛʙᴄ);
5. 1994 Burmester VP (∃ colheita, which we need) (CPR);
6. 1994 Kopke VP (∃ colheita, which we need) (CPR);
7. 1955 Burmester colheita (∃ VP, which we need) (SCD);
8. 1972 Dow colheita (∃ VP, which we need) (SCD);
9. 1977 Kopke colheita (∃ VP, which we need) (SCD).

Venue: probably The Boot & Flogger, 10-20 Redcross Way, London SE1 1TA, tel +44 20 7407 1184 (streetmap.co.uk, bing, maps.google.co.uk).

[jdaw1]

At the 1975 horizontal on 15^th December 2015 we tasted both Niepoort 1975 colheita and vintage. The VP was a 1975 VP: light-weight, heat mid-palate, pleasant drinking. But the colheita was big and powerful and delicious.

I have heard it said that some years are better for VP (sweet berry or plums or cherries), and others better for colheita (presumably better acidity). Perhaps we could taste pairs of bottles, each pair being the same shipper and same harvest year, one of the pair being colheita, other being VP (or perhaps a good LBV).

• Who wants in?
• Who has what bottles? (Please reveal the colheitas you have for which the same-shipper same-year VP was declared.)
• When? Next autumn?

Edit, to disambiguate: for these purposes, Taylor and Krohn are not the same.

[benread]

Sounds like fun to me! How easy will it be to find a colheita and VP from same shipper & year?

[PhilW]

I have Barao de Vilar white colheita '89 and a Barao de Vilar bottled (Maynard BOB, possibly Cruz) 1989 VP

Am assuming you would want this to be for VPs which have at least come of age, i.e. 1994 latest? I think it would be a small enough list, it might well be worth starting by simply listing those shipper/year combinations for which it is known that the shipper has made both colheita and VP available from that year, then seeing who has any (in case they are unaware)?

FWIW I'm aware that there is both Colheita and VP from Krohn in '67, though (helpfully) I don't own any of either.

[idj123]

This is an interesting idea and so count me in. Given the (albeit limited) 1975 experience, I wonder whether we should target so-so vintage years (83 or 85) comes to mind, although ultimately, it will depend on what people have. You're also primarily only going to include non UK shippers and thus those that don't necessarily have a high VP reputation (Dalva comes to mind although there are of course exceptions). Older VPs (as opposed to the colheita) from such Shippers may be more difficult to come by.

[CPR 1]

Sounds like a intresting idea. Count me in.

I have a 94 Burmester and Kopke VP, wine seracher has the Colheita easily available but only in Holland if that helps

[Deleted_User_1]

Could you please add me to the list...I have a few Colheita's...Burmester '63 is favourite for this event.

[jdaw1]

First posted updated.

We need a date. To focus discussion, how about Tuesday 20^th September 2016? (Edited: Tuesday 4^th October 2016 suggested below.)

[Deleted_User_1]

First posted updated.

We need a date. To focus discussion, how about Tuesday 20^th September 2016?

September is an absolute No from me...I was hoping for sometime before Easter would be preferred if possible.

[jdaw1]

Easter wouldn't work for Tom.

[PhilW]

Barão de Vilar white colheita 1989 (PW);
Barão de Vilar bottled (Maynard BOB, possibly Cruz) 1989 VP (PW);

eek, I was half joking; you might scare people away with that second bottle!
n.b. I could go further and bring an actual Cruz '89 along at the same time for comparison if wanted...

[Glenn E.]

Sounds like a great tasting! I wish I could be there, but probably cannot. I think that in order to give the Colheitas a fair shot you'll want them to be at least 20 years old, and 30 is probably better. I'm not personally fond of young Colheitas and don't feel like most really have the chance to shine until their 30s.

I have heard it said that some years are better for VP (sweet berry or plums or cherries), and others better for colheita (presumably better acidity).

A more accurate assessment seems to be that some grapes are better for VP, and others better for Colheita. I'm not talking about varietals, but rather the outcome of a growing season. In a small vineyard, the entire product is likely to be either VP or Colheita-worthy because it will likely ripen the same. But in larger vineyards some grapes will ripen more appropriately for VP while others in different areas may ripen more appropriately for Colheita.

For a VP you not only want good fruit, but also good color and tannins. For a Colheita the color isn't as important, but the balance of acidity and sugar is arguably even more important (especially the acidity).

Finding a VP and a Colheita from the same producer in the same year isn't too hard, but it isn't terribly common. You will probably have more luck from the consistent Colheita producers like Kopke, Noval, and Niepoort, but others abound. Kopke and the other Sogevinus brands do it fairly regularly.

[jdaw1]

September is an absolute No from me...I was hoping for sometime before Easter would be preferred if possible.

Easter wouldn't work for Tom.

Tuesday 4^th October 2016?

[Doggett]

Sounds great... Would love to join this tasting. On the colheita front I can offer the following to find VPs for...

Burmester 1955
Dow 1972
Kopke 1977

[PhilW]

1963 Burmester colheita (∃ VP, which we need) (RLC).

I would need to confirm, but I believe I have a Burmester '63 VP (if so, sole bottle).

[jdaw1]

Excellent progress.

Tuesday 4^th October 2016?

Please do comment on the date.

[PhilW]

Tuesday 4^th October 2016?

Please do comment on the date.

Suggested date probably fine for me; though noting from other threads we may have a conflicting "fine tawnies" event around then to coincide with Glenn's visit.

[jdaw1]

It could be the same event (Glenn?), or not, in which case, is the proximity a problem?

[Glenn E.]

Yes and no.

Yes they could be the same event, no I would not mind being forced to attend two tastings in London during the same trip.

[jdaw1]

Yes they could be the same event, no I would not mind being forced to attend two tastings in London during the same trip.

Are the dates for the trip yet set?

[Glenn E.]

Sadly, no. And the trip may still end up being somewhere not convenient to London, so planning probably shouldn't be done around me.

[DRT]

Colheita

planning probably shouldn't be done around me.

Does not compute. Please turn off and reboot.

[PhilW]

It could be the same event (Glenn?), or not, in which case, is the proximity a problem?

For me as an out-of-London-er, close proximity tends to force a decision between two events rather than attendance of both; date-depenedent I would likely choose to meet Glenn again, especially since I missed his visit this year.

[Glenn E.]

Yes they could be the same event, no I would not mind being forced to attend two tastings in London during the same trip.

Are the dates for the trip yet set?

It looks like we will not be making a trip to Europe this year, so these events will have to go on without me.

There's always a chance that plans will change (though in this case it seems unlikely), and if that happens we'll call an emergency.