Quinta do Noval Nacional mini-vertical

[RPA]

I am a long term lurker on this forum but this is my first post. I will try and make this as comprehensive as possible to avoid being given a lecture by JDAW...

I have for sale four bottles of Quinta do Noval Nacional, one from each of the 1994, 1997, 2000 and 2003 vintages, which sadly I have decided to part with due to having a wedding to pay for. I tried to convince the other half that drinking one or more of these at the aforementioned wedding would be a better idea than selling them, but no prizes for guessing how that converstion went...

As you can see from the photos below the label conditions are pristine. The fill levels are all excellent and well into the neck. The 1994, 1997 and 2003 bottles were purchased in the United States (hence the spelling 'Porto' rather than 'Port' and the 'Imported by William Grant & Sons Inc.' back labels) and the 2000 bottle was purchased in the United Kingdom. I actually still have the original purchase receipt for the 1994 and 1997 bottles. Since purchase many years ago the bottles have spent the vast majority of their lives in professional cellarage, only recently being moved into my home wine refrigerator (kept at constant 12C - I just took them out to take the photos, hence the condensation on the bottles - they are now safely back in there!).

I am located in (central) London, and would ideally prefer to hand the bottles over in person rather than shipping them. I am happy to sell the bottles individually or all together. Instead of coming up with a price I am open to offers. One thing to consider is I am actually looking for a bottle of 1945 Vintage Port (name undecided, but one that will be in decent shape for drinking) to celebrate a 70th birthday next year, so would be willing to consider a part exchange (don't tell the missus...).

Please PM me if you are interested or if you have any questions. I can also provide further photos if needed.

[EDIT: I have now figured out how to upload attachment so the photos are below]

[jdaw1]

Well, hello and welcome. What an excellent first post.

The photo upload might have been prevented by it being a first post, but the picture links work fine.

Alas, NN is beyond my current budget, but others, most of whom are abroad this week, might be more enthusiastic.

(don't tell the missus...)

We won’t tell. But she might read.

[RPA]

Further photos.

[Alex Bridgeman]

So tempting! If I hadn't committed myself financially to other things I would have grabbed this opportunity with enthusiasm. Sadly I can't make you a realistic offer. You might get some interest from others on this forum, but you might have to resort to one of the London auction houses.

I can also tell from your first post that you would fit in extremely well with us! As and when your circumstances (better half) permit, you would be very welcome to join us at one of our tastings!

[DRT]

from your first post that you would fit in extremely well with us!

Was it this bit that gave it away?...

I will try and make this as comprehensive as possible to avoid being given a lecture by JDAW...

[Alex Bridgeman]

from your first post that you would fit in extremely well with us!

Was it this bit that gave it away?...

I will try and make this as comprehensive as possible to avoid being given a lecture by JDAW...

It might have been...

[RPA]

Many thanks for the kind words. I've been avoiding making a post for a couple of years but this gave me a decent excuse. I can imagine it is a very slippery slope... I am keen to partake in some tastings to continue the development of my (still rather padawan) palate. Just promise to go easy on me!

I have given the auction and/or wine broker routes some thought but was hoping to avoid these given the additional 20% the buyer would have to pay in VAT as these are obviously Duty Paid bottles. A private sale would seem to be better for all parties, but if I can't find a buyer then I may have to revisit.

Inevitably a couple of people have asked me how much I'd be willing to accept for the bottles. I was trying to avoid this as I did some initial research (WineSearcher Pro) and realised that as these bottles don't pop up very often the pricing can be a bit aggressive (such as GBP1,482 from Hedonism being the lowest UK price for the 1994...). However to facilitate a sale I have attempted to come up with some prices which I think seem reasonable for bottles in this condition with good provenance.

Feel free to say if you think these prices are cheap/reasonable/punchy/absurd:

1994: GBP750
1997: GBP650
2000: GBP400
2003: GBP500

[jdaw1]

Feel free to say if you think these prices are cheap/reasonable/punchy/absurd:

1994: GBP750
1997: GBP650
2000: GBP400
2003: GBP500

The prices are manifestly absurd. But I don’t know whether or not they are wrong.

[DRT]

I think your prices are very fair for a private sale and are probably in the ballpark of what you would net from an auction sale.

You should perhaps consider advertising these on For The Love of Port to widen your audience. There are lots of guys in the USA that do not visit here that would probably throw their $$$ at this opportunity given the price differencial between these bottles and what they would have to pay at home.

[RPA]

Many thanks Derek, and to a lesser extent Julian who eerily echoes the sentiment expressed by my better half...

I think your prices are very fair for a private sale and are probably in the ballpark of what you would net from an auction sale.

That is what I thought, although clearly it would be better to cut out the middleman (and the taxman).

I have considered widening my audience to the USA and perhaps posting on 'the other forum', but my inherent laziness prefers the option of selling closer to home, plus I'm apprehensive about shipping costs / risks. I will see how much interest there is on here first but may take your advice if it proves unsuccessful.

[DRT]

I don't think you should worry too much about the shipping costs or risks, both of which can be passed to the buyer provided you are clear that it is their responsibility.

Quite a few of our American cousins have stashes in the UK

[Glenn E.]

Quite a few of our American cousins have stashes in the UK

Derek is not lying.

I would have no qualms about purchasing your bottles in the UK and arranging separate transport if I were in the market for Nacional. And I agree that your prices look fair.

[RPA]

Thanks Derek and Glenn. In that case I will post on FTLOP and see if it garners any interest from over the pond.

[jdaw1]

Some discussion followed in the FTLoP thread entitled Quinta do Noval Nacional mini-vertical.

[RPA]

After a lukewarm response to this offering (read: no one has bought the bottles...) it seems I am reluctantly going to have to go down the broker/auction route. Does anyone have any experience / sage advice to offer in terms of how to go about this and what conduit to use? Obviously I am keen to maximise the price while minimising the amount that goes to the middleman (although I'm sure one is almost certainly inversely proportional to the other), but not at the expense of limiting the audience or using any 'dodgy' auction websites.

[jdaw1]

After a lukewarm response to this offering (read: no one has bought the bottles...)

Please know that the problem was financial not personal. And understandably so.

You could start by phoning Christie’s.

[DRT]

If I were you I would spend an hour phoning a few wine merchants to see if any are interested. If none bite then phone Christie's.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'd run this in parallel.

Phone a few wine merchants and brokers who might be interested. Suggestions would include Uncorked, Seckfords, Fine & Rare, and various others you can pull out of a copy of Decanter Magazine. You could try the big names of Berry Brothers, Justerini & Brooks, Farr Vintners and Corney & Barrow, but I don't know what sort of reaction you will get. Start with Seckfords though, as we know them and they know their port.

At the same time call the obvious and less obvious auction houses. They'll be keen to sell your port for you but won't give you a firm price in the same way a wine merchant will - but they will be able to guarantee a sale. Sotheby's don't seem to get Port in the same way that Christie's, Bonhams, Dreweatt Neate and Straker Chadwick do. You can also have a word with your local auction house and see what they can do. Many local auction houses hold wine sales once or twice a year, but with bottles this special you're probably best sticking to the big companies with international followers.

[RPA]

Very many thanks for the advice. I will pencil in an hour to do some cold calling of brokers and see how it goes, otherwise they will be on their way to an auction house.

[RPA]

After making some calls it seems sending them to auction is the best way forward - Sworders is the one being recommended most highly it seems. Before I pull the trigger, I am making one last offer on here with a price reduction as I'd much prefer they went to someone on this forum, plus with buyers/sellers commission and VAT I can't see an auction netting much more than this:

1994: GBP600
1997: GBP600
2000: GBP325
2003: GBP425

As previous mentioned, I am still keen to consider a swap/PX for a bottle of 1945 VP.

[djewesbury]

After making some calls it seems sending them to auction is the best way forward - Sworders is the one being recommended most highly it seems. Before I pull the trigger, I am making one last offer on here with a price reduction as I'd much prefer they went to someone on this forum, plus with buyers/sellers commission and VAT I can't see an auction netting much more than this:

1994: GBP600
1997: GBP600
2000: GBP325
2003: GBP425

As previous mentioned, I am still keen to consider a swap/PX for a bottle of 1945 VP.

Er, did anyone actually buy the bottle of Croft 45 that was at auction at Sworder's the other day? I think it was listed as one of the unsold lots..
So your total ask is £1950.. for NN 94, 97, 00 and 03.
Is anybody interested in a group purchase? There are 56 glasses of legendary port in here, for an offline in, say, 10 years' time. Or, thinking of it another way, 1950 / 14 = 139 each for four glasses of port. Or £35 a glass.
Come on you adventurers, let's line up and buy this lot.

[RPA]

Daniel - it looks like there were two Croft 1945s in their last auction. One went for GBP320 (lot 412 - capsule damage) and one went unsold (lot 463 - damaged label, slight seepage, high shoulder). GBP320 (plus buyer's premium I guess) doesn't seem like a bad price for a Croft 45, although it depends what 'capsule damage' means...

I like your thinking on the group purchase. Let's see if there are any other takers!

[AW77]

The bottles are now on e-bay:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Quinta-do-Noval- ... SS:DE:3160

[RPA]

The bottles are now on e-bay:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Quinta-do-Noval- ... SS:DE:3160

Indeed. I was advised that even though selling alcohol is against the rules of eBay UK, it is perfectly within the rules (and law) to sell on the German version of eBay even from the UK, with delivery within the European Union not posing export/import issues. This is a bit of an experiment and I will clearly remove the listing well before the auction reaches a conclusion if there is sufficient interest outside of it.

[idj123]

If it were older NNs then I might have been tempted by Daniel's proposal but as it is I'll likely be pushing up daisies by the time these are in their pomp and so I'll pass!