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Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 18:11 Fri 01 Sep 2017
by iurde
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
I own a bottle of Borges & Irmao, vintage 1927 that I would like to sell.
It was part of a payment some years ago. The bottle is in Cantabria, northern Spain (near Santander, whose climate is similar to southern England).
This bottle has been in a horizontal position, in a stable environment and the level is at the base of the neck.
I am confused about the value of this wine, since I have seen this opinion:
1927 Vintage
A truly majestic Vintage, 1927 was one of the classic Vintages of the 20th Century, with poise and class. Declared by all of the major Port houses.
Outstanding wines, which will last for years if well cellared. The wines continue to improve after 75 years and may well continue to do so even after 100. (http://www.vintagewineandport.co.uk/vin ... artrow=817)


Prices of similar bottles go from €300 to... €3000!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
http://www.vintagewineandport.co.uk/vin ... artrow=817
or
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/borg ... tugal/1920

I don't expect to get a little fortune out of this wine, but I am open to reasonable offers.
Otherwise, perhaps I wait 10 years, and drink it to celebrate its first century! :mrgreen:
I will upload some pictures as soon as I understand how to do it.
Thank you
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Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 07:07 Sat 02 Sep 2017
by Andy Velebil
Old and high price don't always go together. Pricing depends largely on producer, the wines reputation for being great or not so great, known and documented provenance. Of course location you are selling it can also cause price swings.

Vintage CAN help, but the things listed generally take precedence when they get this old. You can have the best vintage in the world, but if it was stored badly the bottles are worthless.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 09:37 Sat 02 Sep 2017
by iurde
Thank you.
This bottle was given to my mother some 10 years ago by a Porto wine merchant. We don't know how it was stored before (although being a wine merchant, I can imagine it was not treated in a negligent way), but since, it has been in my mother's basement, lying horizontally, in a dark, cool a humid environment (8-12 C, 75-80% HC).
A merchant (in Holland) sells a similar bottle (Borges & Irmao, vintage 1920) for an amazing price (€3150): https://www.oldliquors.com/port-1920-borges-irmao-9122.
This other (in Germany), by €795: https://www.jahrhundertweine.de/shpSR.p ... 257&p2=531
Here (in the UK), there are some bottles around €600-900:http://www.vintagewineandport.co.uk/vin ... artrow=817
This other merchant (in Portugal) has one for €950:http://www.lusawines.com/vinhos/389
Still, I am a little puzzled by these prices...
Anyway, I welcome reasonable offers.
Thank you again.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 12:03 Sat 02 Sep 2017
by Andy Velebil
It's a well known year in Port circles but the producer isn't that well known in recent times. In other words, if this was a Fonseca you'd expect far more than the range I list. In the USA this would probably sell for around the $300-500 range. The UK folks on here could give you a better idea as to pricing there, but typically old Ports sell for less there than in the USA.

There is a reason those sellers still have those bottles for sale in their shops....no one is willing to pay those prices.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 21:23 Sat 02 Sep 2017
by iurde
There is a reason those sellers still have those bottles for sale in their shops....no one is willing to pay those prices.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
You are probably right!!!

I have seen somewhere that Borges & Irmao went out of business as such many years ago. The society was founded in 1884, but nowadays their heirs work with other wines and their brands for Ports are Borges Porto Vintage, Borges LBV, Tawnys de Idade and Borges Coroa, Ruby and White (Wikipedia: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinhos_Borges).

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 08:23 Mon 04 Sep 2017
by AHB
Hi Iurde

You have a bottle from a great vintage, but a poor producer. I've drunk a number of 1927 vintage ports, but never this one. If this was a bottle located in the UK I would expect to see it auction for a hammer price in the region of £250-300 (from which you would have to pay a commission to the auctioneer).

The higher prices you are seeing on the internet are accurate, but are the prices which retailers are offering which include the retailer's margin and the risk that a retailer may have to give a full refund to the buyer if the bottle proves to be no good. A private seller with no track record of sales will never get the same price as a retailer.

Personally I recommend you keeping it! If you don't need the money, you have a bottle of something special which would be a lot of fun to open and share with friends or family in 10 years time. If you do sell it, you are likely to feel disappointed if you receive €200-250 after auctioneer's expenses having seen a price offered on the internet of €3,000.

Maybe you should contact Old Liquors in Holland and see what they would offer you (and let us know too please!!).

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 08:46 Mon 04 Sep 2017
by iurde
Mmmm... Good idea, contacting the seller who asks €3000 and see how much he offers me.
But, you are right: I will probably keep this bottle for personal use (unless someone offers me a ridiculous high price).
Thank you very much, anyway.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 23:34 Tue 24 Oct 2017
by jdaw1
Please, please could I be sent a good photograph of this unusual bottle, for inclusion in a book on vintage port. Ideally the photograph would be high resolution, in focus, good lighting, correctly aligned, etc.

I’ll happily give credit as you instruct — please instruct.

My email address is on www.jdawiseman.com/author.html.

Thank you.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 09:01 Wed 25 Oct 2017
by iurde
Sure!
I contacted, by the way, the sellers mentioned above, but none of them answered.
By the way, Old Liquors in Holland have no contact form: you can only buy their bottles using the "add to the basket" feature.
So, the bottle is staying in the family for a happy drinking some day.
Thank you for your advices and interest.

Re: Bottle of Borges & Irmao, Vintage 1927

Posted: 18:41 Thu 16 Nov 2017
by Axel P
Can you write me a quick email to axelprobst@worldofport.de

Thanks