ThePortForum.com

PhilW wrote: ↑13:45 Mon 09 Mar 2020 Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?

Yes good spot. It's listed under M alphabetically.
Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!

“VDM = Quinta Vale Dona Maria” added to the official list.

flash_uk wrote: ↑14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!

Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:13 Mon 09 Mar 2020

flash_uk wrote: ↑14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!

Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.

Yes good point

jdaw1 wrote: ↑23:13 Mon 09 Mar 2020

flash_uk wrote: ↑14:27 Mon 09 Mar 2020Phil - could you copy the abbreviation list into the first post which you own? Makes it much easier to find!

Not copy: move. So that there is one official list, rather than several inconsistently updated.

Agreed and done.

Also moved Vale Meao and Van Zeller abbreviations to their correct alphabetic position in list.

Alpha by abbreviation, or by dominant word in name? Perhaps I wasn't consistent: what is new guidance?

PhilW wrote: ↑13:45 Mon 09 Mar 2020 I'd agree with VDM as most obvious choice, and to my mind no more confusing with potential Vesuvio single quinta as Gould Campbell GC is with potential new Graham's single quinta (i.e. we already cope with this issue). Do we not already have VM for Quinta do Vale Meao anyway?

Beat me to it. Yes, VM is Quinta do Vale Meao not Vesuvio Malvedos.

VDM also makes the most sense to me. I know we try to keep them as short as possible, but this is one of those cases where the extra length adds significantly to clarity.

jdaw1 wrote:Alpha by abbreviation, or by dominant word in name? Perhaps I wasn't consistent: what is new guidance?

Alpha by abbreviation, though I wasn't intending to change the approach - should I revert?

People will want to look up both abbreviation to shipper and vice versa. We should have two lists.

Many links, in this thread and elsewhere, pointed to the old location of the list. Most, perhaps, all have been edited to point to the new first-post location.

AHB wrote: ↑22:09 Tue 10 Mar 2020People will want to look up both abbreviation to shipper and vice versa. We should have two lists.

In practice it will be difficult to keep in synch the two lists. Control-F is your friend.

AHB wrote: ↑16:13 Thu 30 Apr 2020I have just been advised Quinta da Devesa will be bottling 2018 as their first production of Vintage Port.

Some pictures on PortugalVineyards.com.

Dv? Could be Ds, but I prefer Dv. Any objections to Dv?

jdaw1 wrote: ↑18:56 Thu 30 Apr 2020 Dv? Could be Ds, but I prefer Dv. Any objections to Dv?

Dv preferred (and already used here!)

I also prefer Dv.

Axel P wrote: ↑19:43 Tue 05 May 2020

Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo needs an abbreviation. BA? BAz? Any opinions?

Past practice seems to lead to BA, as we only rarely use more than 1 character except for disambiguation. Does Burmester have another Quinta that might need disambiguation from (A)rnozelo? Even if so, past practice seems to lead to first come first served, with only subsequent examples providing necessary disambiguation.

I say BA.

Glenn E. wrote: ↑22:24 Tue 05 May 2020 Past practice seems to lead to BA, as we only rarely use more than 1 character except for disambiguation. Does Burmester have another Quinta that might need disambiguation from (A)rnozelo? Even if so, past practice seems to lead to first come first served, with only subsequent examples providing necessary disambiguation.

I say BA.

Agree, BA. Of course, there is also FrA1870 which is also Arnozello [two Ls], a single quinta vp release in 1870 - which we should of course be drinking this year; sadly my last case ran out never ago.

BA = Burmester Quinta do Arnozelo

Done.

I think Fr's Arnozello and Burmester's Arnozelo are the same quinta, just the effect of time and historically limited literacy having changed the spelling slightly (c.f. Vargelas and Vargellas).

I like the consistency of having XxA being the Arnozelo wine, whether made under the stewardship of Ferreira or Burmester. Sadly we didn't follow that logic when we named Taylor Vargellas as TV and Vesuvio as V. Ferreira made both a Ferreira Vargelas and a Ferreira Vezuvio in the 19C - we don't have abbreviations for those wines. Should we?

Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).

We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?

AHB wrote: ↑08:42 Thu 07 May 2020Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).

The original purpose of these necessitated brevity. Brevity is still very much a desideratum. As is consistency with the printed book. So my vote, in response to Alex’s questions, is a strong ‘no’.

AHB wrote: ↑08:44 Thu 07 May 2020We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?

RPR preferred, for brevity.

jdaw1 wrote: ↑10:07 Thu 07 May 2020

AHB wrote: ↑08:42 Thu 07 May 2020Should Vargellas become Vg with Vesuvio remaining V? That way we have FrV, V, FrVg and TVg (and TVgV).

The original purpose of these necessitated brevity. Brevity is still very much a desideratum. As is consistency with the printed book. So my vote, in response to Alex’s questions, is a strong ‘no’.

AHB wrote: ↑08:44 Thu 07 May 2020We also need an abbreviation for Ramos Pinto Quinta do Bom Retiro.

RPBR?

RPR preferred, for brevity.

I'm okay with the mildly confusing possibility of someone having to explain what their FrV actually is. I would like to be present for the explanation and, presumably, the tasting. Preferably FrV vs FrV head-to-head, if that could please be arranged.

I concur re: RPR, making the pair (with RPE) more recognizably related should RPE ever be needed.

JacobH wrote: ↑16:35 Wed 10 Jun 2020A new shipper, Kranemann have declared 2018. It’s based at Quinta do Convento de São Pedro das Águias, although it’s not quite clear from the website whether it’s a SQVP. The name is from its owner—Christoph Kranemann—who seems to be an ophthalmologist who moved into wine production via. wine collecting as a hobby. They also advertise a 2009 but I wonder if that is old stock that has been re-branded.

Km? If could be Kn, but that is more easily confusable with Kr = (Wiese &) Krohn. Any objections to Km?

Km for me- it emphasises the two key syllables and, as you say, Kn sounds like Krohn.

BTW, some Ports are sold under the brand of Senhora do Convento. There is some duplication (e.g. there's both a 10 YO tawny SdC and Km) so I presume it's more than a SQVP name. I'm not sure if that warrants another abbreviation or not!

Km preferred here also.