Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Anything to do with Port.
Post Reply
Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 15:25 Sat 29 Nov 2014

With the 2011 so hard to find, would it make sense to buy up the 2007 which I can find. Thoughts on how they compare? Thanks for your help.

PS. I do have 2 full and 2 half 2011's but no 2007 so the obvious answer is yes but more looking for thoughts on how they compare.

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3706
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by LGTrotter » 15:48 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Welcome aboard sir!

My information is generally unreliable/disputed but here goes: it all depends. It depends on what else you have, where you are in terms of your journey to port enlightenment and what your intentions are (do you intend to drink it or flog it later). If the latter then either will do as they are both critically acclaimed and should do OK eventually (big but is that I doubt anyone made money on port futures). If you want to drink it then you have kind of answered your own question; a bit of a spread of vintages is desirable. Makes for more interesting drinking.

PhilW
Dow 1980
Posts: 2883
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by PhilW » 16:14 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Phillyant23 wrote:With the 2011 so hard to find, would it make sense to buy up the 2007 which I can find. Thoughts on how they compare? Thanks for your help.

PS. I do have 2 full and 2 half 2011's but no 2007 so the obvious answer is yes but more looking for thoughts on how they compare.
I would extend Derek's answer to also ask when you want to drink it. If you like very young port and want to be drinking whatever you buy over the next couple of years then 2011 is fabulous, while 2007 has reached the "store me for a long time" phase and would likely disappoint by comparison. If on the other hand you are asking with regard to their future quality after storage until 20+ years old, then from recent vintages it would a roughly fair guide to say that 2011 > 2003 > 2007.

Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 16:53 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Thanks and glad I found this forum. My intention is to cellar the regular size and enjoy the halves on occasion. My true intention is to enjoy one 2011 in my 40th birthday (2021) and one on my 50th (2031) while drinking my halves whenever I need a fix. Sounds like if I want something sooner, then I should stick with the '11 and save the '07 for perhaps my 35th or 45th birthday.

I have been drinking ports for a few years and finally went into the vintage ports a year or two ago. Looking to expand so suggestions are welcome. I have a wide variety of 2011 right now: Croft, Dows, Fonseca, Taylor Fladgate, Graham's. Now I need to start getting some older stuff. FYI- personal preference was Dows for '11 then Fonseca

gardenhose
Cockburn’s Special Reserve
Posts: 29
Joined: 17:17 Fri 19 Oct 2012

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by gardenhose » 18:58 Sat 29 Nov 2014

The Dow's and Fonseca 2011's are my two favorites from this vintage as well. I'm just disappointed I didn't buy another case of the Dow's at $75 CAD/bottle. But we must let others enjoy these guys, too.

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3706
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by LGTrotter » 19:10 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Such wisdom in one so young! What farsightedness to think in such a way. I must say that looking back I regret not buying more older stuff while it was still widely and reasonably available. Prime examples of these currently are the seventies and eighties vintages which I think might start disappearing soon. I realise this is not your original question but it was a thought.

Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 23:10 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Never had anything from those decades but will have to try. Any suggestions in particular?

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3706
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by LGTrotter » 02:34 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Phillyant23 wrote:Never had anything from those decades but will have to try. Any suggestions in particular?
I started to write a reply to this a while back but lost the post and went to bed instead. Let me try again.

I cannot think anybody on this forum would disagree with Fonseca 85. Personally I don't like 83 but others here swear by it. 1980 is a bit of a mish mash, this makes the good uns relatively good value, eg Warre and Graham, the Dow is supposed to be fantastic but is fully priced. 1970 is very good and consistent throughout. Not knowing where you are and how you shop makes it harder to suggest but I might advise you to go to your regular quality wine shops and have a look at what they have, comparing the prices via wine searcher so you don't pay too over the odds (I have found prices to be inconsistent within the same shop, some cheap, some hugely over priced) and try a few. See what you like, try a few more. Some people like younger port, I happen to like older. There are tastings which allow you to try a ton of different ports. :tpf: has been known to hold them from time to time.

Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 04:16 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Thanks for the advice. Here in the states and particularly in Pennsylvania, they make it as hard as possible to find good deals. The state owns and runs all liquor stores so there is no price shopping. On top of that not all stores that are online can/will ship to PA. So the search is usually quite the battle. If I can get in early, as was the case with the '11, the state stores have plenty of supply. Older vintages are hit or miss.

I will see if I can track down the Fonseca or Dows as I tend to gravitate that way anyway.

User avatar
RAYC
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2060
Joined: 23:50 Tue 04 May 2010
Location: London

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by RAYC » 11:10 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Phillyant23 wrote:My true intention is to enjoy one 2011 in my 40th birthday (2021) and one on my 50th (2031)
I would think that Dow 1970 would be absolutely perfect for this!
Rob C.

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12275
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by AHB » 14:29 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Phillyant23 wrote:Thanks for the advice. Here in the states and particularly in Pennsylvania, they make it as hard as possible to find good deals. The state owns and runs all liquor stores so there is no price shopping. On top of that not all stores that are online can/will ship to PA. So the search is usually quite the battle. If I can get in early, as was the case with the '11, the state stores have plenty of supply. Older vintages are hit or miss.

I will see if I can track down the Fonseca or Dows as I tend to gravitate that way anyway.
If you're prepared to drive an hour or two north to get good port take a look at the Wine Library in Springfield, NJ. When I was living in NJ this was my normal go to store for port. Might not be too far for you to travel.
Top Ports in 2019 (so far): Cockburn 1947 and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
2018 Ports of the year: São Leonardo 1927 White Port (Bottled 2018), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994

Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 15:17 Mon 01 Dec 2014

I will check that place out next time I am up that way. Thank you.

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12275
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by AHB » 23:44 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Despite Owen's (LG Trotter) advice to try Fonseca 1985, I would actually suggest the Taylor 1985 as the mature port to try to see if you like older port. While this isn't the best of mature ports, it is easy to get hold of and gives a good idea of whether you'd like to get more into mature port.

If you decide you do like mature port, a cheaper route to build up a cellar might be to seek out and buy the traditional or bottle matured (also known as unfiltered) LBVs. These are ports which I'll age beautifully with examples from the '80s drinking really nicely at the moment. They don't have the long life of a vintage port, but are fabulous wines at a fraction of the price of a vintage port. Producers include Smith Woodhouse, Warre, Quinta do Noval and Niepoort. I'm sure there are others which I have forgotten. But beware since you won't get the same experienced from a filtered LBV and some of these producers make both styles.
Top Ports in 2019 (so far): Cockburn 1947 and Quinta do Noval Nacional 2017
2018 Ports of the year: São Leonardo 1927 White Port (Bottled 2018), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by djewesbury » 23:45 Mon 01 Dec 2014

Be aware also that Niepoort's LBV is always 'unfiltered', they just don't bother saying so on the bottle.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

Phillyant23
Cruz Ruby
Posts: 9
Joined: 15:17 Sat 29 Nov 2014

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Phillyant23 » 12:40 Tue 02 Dec 2014

AHB wrote:Despite Owen's (LG Trotter) advice to try Fonseca 1985, I would actually suggest the Taylor 1985 as the mature port to try to see if you like older port. While this isn't the best of mature ports, it is easy to get hold of and gives a good idea of whether you'd like to get more into mature port.
If I can get either for the relative same price, do you still offer the same advice?

Glenn E.
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3401
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Glenn E. » 18:04 Tue 02 Dec 2014

Phillyant23 wrote:
AHB wrote:Despite Owen's (LG Trotter) advice to try Fonseca 1985, I would actually suggest the Taylor 1985 as the mature port to try to see if you like older port. While this isn't the best of mature ports, it is easy to get hold of and gives a good idea of whether you'd like to get more into mature port.
If I can get either for the relative same price, do you still offer the same advice?
The Fonseca is the better Port, but it is far from mature at this point. So it would depend on your goal.

If your goal is to try a (more or less) mature Port, then get the Taylor. But if your goal is to get the best possible Port for your money and you're happy to hold onto (some of) it for 10-20 years while it finishes maturing, then get the Fonseca. Or to add a wrinkle, just get a 1985 Graham and get both at the same time. :wink:
Glenn Elliott

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by djewesbury » 18:09 Tue 02 Dec 2014

Déjà lu...
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
Chris Doty
Warre’s Otima 20 year old Tawny
Posts: 690
Joined: 12:30 Fri 29 Jan 2010

Re: Dow's 2007 vs 2011

Post by Chris Doty » 01:37 Wed 03 Dec 2014

I haven't had either in a while, but the 07 Dow did not impress me within the context of a very good but not great vintage (the Noval is my only 'must own'), then there are 3-4 wines, then the Dow. 2011 is a stronger vintage, and Dow's relative position exceeds that of the '07. The wine just has more dimension - it has rich fruit and structure you can savor. It's not quevedo, but it's up there. Those have been my limited and highly preliminary impressions, at any rate. Haven't had either in a while, and I'd expect them to be difficult to drink for some time. I hope in the course of a long life that I become very familiar with these two wines, but I'm still carefully celebrating my arsenal of '70.

woo woo

Post Reply