Corking questions

[uncle tom]

Thanks to eBay, and the outlay of the princely sum of £4.99 (plus a trip to south London to collect) I am now the proud owner of a floor standing corking machine of French extraction. A quick test with an empty bottle showed it to be very efficient, with little physical effort required.

Now I feel confident enough to re-cork those pesky Niepoort '97's, and a handful of other bottles whose corks are beginning to fail.

Now, some questions - I don't think I've ever seen a modern bottling line in operation - does modern good practice dictate the insertion of corks wet or dry? - and are they sterilized (with sulphite?) first?

All information gratefully received!

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

Back in the days when Dad and I used to make fruit wine, we only ever boiled the corks in a little sulphited water. The main sterlising effect was from the heat, which had the added benefit of also softening the corks slightly. We then inserted the corks while wet, immediately after rinsing them off in a bucket of clean hot water.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Please post a YouTube video of the corking machine in action.

[jdaw1]

• Clean and dry your floor corker at the end of every bottling day. Water can pool up inside the mechanism, resulting in corrosion, especially if the water has sulfites in it.
• Don't over soak your corks. Twenty minutes is more than enough time. Corks that have soaked up too much liquid will release it inside the mechanism when squeezed by the jaws and fluid pooling on the inside of the machine will corrode it.
• If the corks are going too far into the bottles, or wind up sticking out above the neck, adjust the cork depth with the knurled ring threaded onto the corking finger. Corks should be just below flush with the lip of the bottle.
• Lubricate the jaws with a small amount of Petrol-Gel. Do not use vegetable oil as it will attract too much dirt and gum up the jaws. Do not use WD 40 as the solvents and propellants in the material will slowly dissolve the plastic jaws and WD 40 is not safe for human consumption should it come in contact with the corks.
• Occasionally lubricate other moving parts (those that do not come into contact with the cork) with WD 40 to prevent sticking.
• If the shaft that holds up the bottle platform sticks or won't spring back up when the corking arm is released, tighten the two small nuts on the bottom of the platform tensioning arm.

If your corker malfunctions or sticks, be extremely cautious about taking it apart . The jaw mechanisms are held in place by powerful springs and can leap out when the cover is removed and/or deliver a nasty pinch to unwary fingers.

[jdaw1]

Also of use might be this and this ODP categories.

[Andy Velebil]

having done bottling at a couple wineries by hand and machine, I've never seen any soaked in water of any sorts. The machine compresses it enought that the machine easily pushes it into the bottle. Just make sure to leave the bottles upright for a couple days to allow the cork to re-expand after.

[gonzo]

This has really piqued my interest...I too would like to see this in action if you can youtube it! Also let us know how you decide to proceed vis a vis wet or dry corking and how the method you choose works!!

[Alex Bridgeman]

It seems that an experiment on some ruby port bottles may be required.

Replacement of T-stoppers with driven corks before giving the bottles to Derek for storage and maturation for 30+ years, perhaps!


Alex

[DRT]

It seems that an experiment on some ruby port bottles may be required.

Replacement of T-stoppers with driven corks before giving the bottles to Derek for storage and maturation for 30+ years, perhaps!


Alex

Alex,

You might be closer to the truth than you may have thought. I have 18 bottles of Croft LBV 2002 waiting to go offsite along with your little stash of the same wine. These were all bottled this year and sealed with T-stoppers. Should we give some of them to Tom to allow him to practice his re-corking before he embarks on his quest to rid his cellar of leaking 100 yr old bottles? This would have advantages (a) if it goes wrong in the ealry attempts then nothing much is lost and (b) we would have long corks to pull in 10 to 15 years time when our C02's are ready

Derek

[jdaw1]

If they are being stored for decades, they should not be the first Tom does. You don’t want the experiment being ruined by Tom saying something functionally equivalent to “oh yes, they were done before I found the magic red button†.

But such an experiment of T, re-corked wet, re-corked dry, is very worthwhile. You might also like to extract a T and push it back in, to control for cork type (T versus long) and separately to know whether the extraction and return of a cork have an effect.

[Andy Velebil]

Remember that if you decide to use water, tap water typically contains a lot of chlorine. Mix that with some corks, and you've got a TCA disaster brewing. You don't need wet corks...matter of fact, I've never seen anyone here or in Portugal use wet corks.

[DRT]

If they are being stored for decades, they should not be the first Tom does. You don’t want the experiment being ruined by Tom saying something functionally equivalent to “oh yes, they were done before I found the magic red button†.

But such an experiment of T, re-corked wet, re-corked dry, is very worthwhile. You might also like to extract a T and push it back in, to control for cork type (T versus long) and separately to know whether the extraction and return of a cork have an effect.

Jdaw,

I understand your logic. However, at £37 for 6 bottles I think it is a low risk experiment, at least from a financial investment perspective.

As I have 18 bottles perhaps the best approach would be:

• 6 bottles left with T in place
• 6 bottles with T removed and re-inserted
• 6 bottles re-closed with long corks

Wadaya think?

Derek

[jdaw1]

Tom: please practice with a few empties first.

As I have 18 bottles perhaps the best approach would be:

• 6 bottles left with T in place
• 6 bottles with T removed and re-inserted
• 6 bottles re-closed with long corks

Wadaya think?

Nearly.

• Five bottles left with T in place;
• Five bottles with T removed and re-inserted;
• Five bottles re-closed with dry long corks;
• Three bottles re-closed with long corks wetted with distilled water.

Yes, the wet ones might be a complete failure—but if they are better that is really worth knowing.

[uncle tom]

Don't underestimate the cost of corks - I bought a bag of best grade port corks from the little wine supplies shop in Pinhao, and they worked out at about 75p each!

I won't have many left after I've dealt with my little list either.

For my test shot with the machine, I used a dry cork, but to ensure sterility I shall probably try giving them a couple of minutes in sulphite solution, followed by a quick rinse in freshly boiled water. I'll also swab the jaws of the machine with the sulphite.

I plan to kick off with the Niepoort '97's and then move on to a couple of 63's before tackling anything seriously valuable - hopefully by then I'll have it all sussed! (I can always drink my mistakes.. )

All I'm waiting for now is to get some stainless ice tongs (ordered off eBay) so I can avoid handling the corks once they've been sterilized.

I've never done YouTube, but I'll try to sort some photos if someone can remind me how to post them here..

Tom

[DRT]

Tom,

I like your style. Jdaw suggests empty bottles. I voted some £6 a bottle LBV and you plump for a case of N97

If you don't mind, if like to have some of those C02s done. Happy to buy the corks.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Derek T. is entirely correct about Uncle T.’s style. You seem to have it all in hand: good luck.

If posting a video, get a friend to hold the camera. Many of us would be interested, I’m sure.

[Andy Velebil]

Tom,

If the bag is still sealed, there is no need to do anything with them except put them into the machine and insert them into the bottle dry. The more you start messing with them the bigger the chance of causing a TCA taint or tainting the liquid inside. The best thing to do with the left over bag is spray an inert gas into it and seal it back up. Then they will be ready to use the next time.

A corking machine will compress the corks to a diameter smaller than the bottle opening. The only thing you need to adjust is the setting for how far in the plunger drives the cork, so the cork is flush with the top of the bottle.

I dont know where the idea about soaking in water came from, but trust me, forget about it. I have corked thousands of bottles, most by hand.

[DRT]

I have corked thousands of bottles, most by hand.

ADV,

Is that corked or un-corked?

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Both

But I prefer UNcorking them, the compensation is much better

[uncle tom]

If the bag is still sealed

Not any more - I'll just immerse them briefly in the sulphite then.

Happy to buy the corks.

Anyone passing Pinhao? - I'll need some more...

I can get the product code off the bag - does anyone do long top quality corks mail order?

Tom

[StevieCage]

Tom, I would use lab-grade alcohol for sterilising your corks, not a sulpher solution.

[uncle tom]

I would use lab-grade alcohol for sterilising your corks, not a sulpher solution

Any particular reason for that?

Sodium metabisulphite releases sulphur dioxide when dissolved in water and has been a favourite sterilizing method for winemakers for many years.

With the possible exception of AnalaR 100% anhydrous ethanol - which is very expensive - I would be concerned about the risk of introducing a 'medicinal' taint.

Tom

[DRT]

Should we consult some experts on this? I'm sure that between us we have quite a few direct contacts to Douro wine and port producers who could tell us what they use.

Alternatively, Tom could buy one of those home wine-making kits from Boots and see what the instructions say

Derek

[jdaw1]

Or you could post a question on www.homewinemaking.co.uk, the members of which must have experience in these matters. (If you do, please post a link in this thread to that one, and in that one to this.)