Did Quinta do Noval ever make a single quinta

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 01:56 Mon 22 Oct 2007

Does anyone know if Noval ever produced a single quinta VP? I mean something labeled as such, for example: Taylor's does Vargellas as a SQVP.

Did Noval ever do this? Any information would be appreciated.

thanks

Split by Admin into Changing Names - badly 6 Sep 2007

Post by **DRT** » 02:03 Mon 22 Oct 2007

I know of 2 SQVP's that Noval produce

Quinta do Noval, and;
Qunita do Noval Nacional

Both are produced entirely from grapes grown on one Quinta therefore both qualify as SQVP's.

I am sure I heard somewhere that they produced another SQVP from another Quinta but I can't remember the name of it.

Derek

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 02:05 Mon 22 Oct 2007

* Quinta do Noval, and;
* Qunita do Noval Nacional

What a wise guy

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 10:29 Mon 22 Oct 2007

In the late eighties, beginning of the nineties, they had the intention of producing a SQ port from Quinta de Roriz, as a sort of second label to Quinta do Noval. I've drunk the 1991, and I'm not quite sure if they made any other vintages than that one (when they sold the company to AXA, Roriz remained in the family). The 1991 was drinkable, but very light.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 11:40 Mon 22 Oct 2007

With Noval, the issue of SQ or not gets very complicated..

I think this is correct:

Prior to '97 Q do Noval vintage port was not an SQ, as some grapes were sourced from beyond the quinta.

However the Noval Nacionals were an SQ - although you could sub-categorise them as a 'part single quinta' as the wine is made from a selected parcel of vines - as is Taylor's VVV, and Q de la Rosa's Inferno (I think..)

Since '97 the Quinta do Noval vintage ports have been made only from grapes grown on the quinta, so they qualify as a single quinta port except that I believe that Quinta do Noval is actually two quinta's merged under a single name..

The Noval Silval vintage ports are made from grapes from a variety of sources, and to be really confusing, Quinta do Silval is NOT one of them!

Tom

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 14:28 Mon 22 Oct 2007

Tom, one thing I know about Quinta do La Rosa Inferno is that they are making a dry wine with the same name. It is possible that there is also a port with the same name though.

I'll try to get an answer from M. Van Zeller to know if Qta Do Noval VP was always made with 100% grapes from the Quinta. Though sometimes these delicate question are often answered in a politic way, either true or false, it is the same answer for the public.

RonnieRoots · Post by **RonnieRoots** » 15:26 Mon 22 Oct 2007

In 1999 Qta. de la Rosa made a VP from the Inferno plot. Don't know if they produced it in other years too.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 15:55 Mon 22 Oct 2007

I'm not aware of any other Inferno vintages either..

Tom

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 02:52 Tue 23 Oct 2007

So I found this at a wine store and picked it up. There were two bottles, but one showed signs of a couple drops of leakage. Looked like old seepage, but I passed on it. Seems Noval did do a Single Quinta VP, at least in 1983. Here is a pic of the bottle I just picked up.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 03:12 Tue 23 Oct 2007

Nice find Andy, it does some light in my mind and I think there was a few vintages of this brand on the price list at the Noval wine bar in Gaia.

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 00:49 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Being a trifle slow on this one, I didn't know that Noval was all the wrong way round, and it did a lesser known 'General' VP, and has only done for about a decade. Noval Silval!

You chaps are going to have to keep me more informed!

Alan

Post by **DRT** » 00:57 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Alan,

Noval Silval has only been around since AXA bought Noval from the van Zeller family. That is why it hasn't been around too long.

Silval is one of those "new" style VP's that are intended to be drunk young, like Sandeman Vau and Niepoort Secundum.

I had some Silval 97 in VNG a few weeks ago and it was very nice. It lived up to the drink it young theory in that it isn't a big tannic brute and doesn't seem to have a long life ahead.

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 01:04 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Derek,

Thanks for that, it saves me from a few minutes Googling tomorrow.

As you've mentioned them, these younger VP's have died a death, haven't they? Surely if they can be drunk now, they need publicising now, and appearing on the shelves. The Vau got a splash of publicity a year or two ago, but it's all gone quiet!

Alan

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 01:11 Wed 24 Oct 2007

It might depend on where these styles of wine are being sold. For example, if the Vau etc. are being shipped to the US to be sold and consumed young over there then you would not expect to see many of them here nor much publicity behind them.

I'm also not convinced that these wines will not fall apart when they reach their middle age of 20-30 years of maturity. I don't think that they will be in the Nacional '63 class, but I could see them achieving a Sandeman '63 class where they have structure built around their acidity rather than their tannins.

Only time will tell and it will be fun watching to see what happens.

Alex

Post by **DRT** » 01:12 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Alan,

I think you need to view these as wines targeted at a different market. The UK is awash with old VP and we don't need stuff that is designed specifically for early drinking. Others are less fortunate than us and it is to them that all of this stuff is exported.

That said, I do think there is a market here in the UK for cheap VP. I for one (having had more than a case of the stuff) would much rather have a Sandeman Vau 96 than a Cruz 89 or a Taylor 2001 LBV for the same price.

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 01:21 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Oh yes! Going all snobby on the Cruz 89?

I understand what your both saying. But even if its market was the US or Holland,etc, I would have thought we'd have heard of it. I'm surprised you rate them that highly, Alex. To compare it to a 63 of anything, is high hopes indeed. Maybe you've just got a sunny disposition.

Stupid Story Time,

I left half a bottle of Warres LBV out from last night, and had a glass before. Couldn't get over how smokey it tasted. Strong and clear, and not there the night before.
Then remembered the bottle was uncorked, and I'd cooked a big greasy mixed grill for brunch! The second half of stuff that went into the picture you've all seen. Felt a bit sheepish when I realised.

Alan

Luc · Post by **Luc** » 01:38 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Derek T. wrote:Alan,

I think you need to view these as wines targeted at a different market. The UK is awash with old VP and we don't need stuff that is designed specifically for early drinking. Others are less fortunate than us and it is to them that all of this stuff is exported.

That said, I do think there is a market here in the UK for cheap VP. I for one (having had more than a case of the stuff) would much rather have a Sandeman Vau 96 than a Cruz 89 or a Taylor 2001 LBV for the same price.

Derek

Derek ,
Strange you should mention the Taylor 2001 LBV .
It happens to be the largest seller amongst all brands in Québec and the chief reason why the Québec/Canadian market has vaulted so high .

Post by **DRT** » 01:40 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Back on topic, Alex has a point here. Whilst these are designed as "drink young" wines I am sure that the best of them will out-live some of the lessaer wines from classic years.

Alan, forget the theory that 63=quality - whilst this is true for the top shippers it is not an assumption that can be made across the board. Some 63's are now way beyond their best whilst others are reaching their peak. You just can't tar them all with the same brush, no matter how good the vintage is perceived to be.

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 01:43 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Again, fair enough. Alex quoted Sandemans 63. If someone gave me a bottle of that I'd be pleased. Has it a poor reputation?

Post by **DRT** » 01:52 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Alan,

I think S63 is genarally considered to be past its best and, as far as I am aware, was never considered top flight. That said, 50% of the examples I have had have been amongst the best ports I have ever had.

Luc,

Is Taylor LBV 2001 really athought of as a top flight port in Quebec? If so, you need to get out more

Derek

Luc · Post by **Luc** » 02:01 Wed 24 Oct 2007

Derek,
Don't worry , I may be a neophyte in the port world , but have developped a liking to colheitas . ( my 1st being a Krohn 1958 ) .

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 14:20 Fri 26 Oct 2007

Conky wrote:Again, fair enough. Alex quoted Sandemans 63. If someone gave me a bottle of that I'd be pleased. Has it a poor reputation?

I've had teh S 70 a few years back and while very enjoyable,
the fruit was starting to fade a little and turning a bit tawny like.

but still a very solid wine

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 01:03 Sat 03 Nov 2007

I was supposed to have a dinner with Cristiano today but unfortunately I was sick home

Though I had a couple of emails with him and here is the info I was able to get. This is english translation from French emails. French his not his first language and English is not mine, so I hope I get this all right.

Quinta do Noval VP did always get 100% Quinta do Noval grapes.

The 1991 Quinta do Roriz was made under Van Zellers & CÃ‚Âº in which Qta Noval had 72% ownings and 28% to Joao and Pedro Van Zeller. This very old company was brought back to life in 88 or 89. In the deal, the Quinta do Roriz was rent by Van Zellers & CÃ‚Âº.

In the time Cristiano and his family was the owner of Noval they did release 83 and 85 vintage from grapes bought from other properties under other brands. They also did Quinta do Silval VP during the 80's.

Quinta do Silval was once a unified vineyard. Problems with owners split the Quinta and one part was bought by Noval befor the 80's and the other part today is owned by M. MagalhÃƒ£es. Noval does own the rights to use the name Silval. So both Noval and MagalhÃƒ£es have a Quinta do Silva vineyard.

Finally he is very proud of 2007 and he thinks it is probably in the top 3 vintage since 1970.

Luc · Post by **Luc** » 01:19 Sat 03 Nov 2007

Frederick Blais wrote:I was supposed to have a dinner with Cristiano today but unfortunately I was sick home Though I had a couple of emails with him and here is the info I was able to get. This is english translation from French emails. French his not his first language and English is not mine, so I hope I get this all right.

Quinta do Noval VP did always get 100% Quinta do Noval grapes.

The 1991 Quinta do Roriz was made under Van Zellers & CÃ‚Âº in which Qta Noval had 72% ownings and 28% to Joao and Pedro Van Zeller. This very old company was brought back to life in 88 or 89. In the deal, the Quinta do Roriz was rent by Van Zellers & CÃ‚Âº.

In the time Cristiano and his family was the owner of Noval they did release 83 and 85 vintage from grapes bought from other properties under other brands. They also did Quinta do Silval VP during the 80's.

Quinta do Silval was once a unified vineyard. Problems with owners split the Quinta and one part was bought by Noval befor the 80's and the other part today is owned by M. MagalhÃƒ£es. Noval does own the rights to use the name Silval. So both Noval and MagalhÃƒ£es have a Quinta do Silva vineyard.

Finally he is very proud of 2007 and he thinks it is probably in the top 3 vintage since 1970.

Would the other two be : Taylor and Fonseca ?

Post by **DRT** » 01:30 Sat 03 Nov 2007

I think what Fred means is that Christiano considers 2007 to have the potential to be one of the best vintages since 1970. So, it would be up there with 1977, 1985, 1994, 1997, 2000 and 2003. That is tough competition

Derek