Oldest bottles

[djewesbury]

This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?

What's the oldest port you've drunk? And was it the oldest drink of any kind that you've had, or have there been others older?

[jdaw1]

With other obvious suspects I have enjoyed an 1830 Ferreira, supplied by CMAG. But AHB has posted TNs of an 1815 Ferreira, and of an 1815 Royal Oporto. Axel has posted about an 1834 Ferreira.

[DRT]

AHB brought a bottle of something to my house a few years ago that I think was from the 18th century. I can't remember what is was but it wasn't Port.

[jdaw1]

This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?

The region was formally demarcated in 1755, and fortification became standard near the turn of the century. An unfortified 1754, bottled in a bottle that couldn’t be racked, would not have been intended to last many decades.

[PhilW]

The oldest vintage port (vs colheita) I have drunk with a definitive date was from 1922. I'm not counting:
- a "believed 1912" which was believable but not proven
- a "Whites of Leicester 1873" which was total vinegar

I have a bottle of something (just) older than 1922 to bring to the Bell this year, so will be guaranteed increase my "definitive oldest vintage port drunk", assuming nothing horrendous occurs in the interim!

The oldest drink of any style which I have drunk was the Oloroso 1830 sherry which Tom brought along last xmas.

[Andy Velebil]

The region was formally demarcated in 1755, and fortification became standard near the turn of the century. An unfortified 1754, bottled in a bottle that couldn’t be racked, would not have been intended to last many decades.

Some standardization of fortification is generally put around 1815 by the industry. But it is believed to be a bit later than that before wine making practices across the board are most similar to today's fortification methods.

[jdaw1]

My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?

[djewesbury]

My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?

However, not all merchants encouraged the practice and it was not until well into the 19th century that this method of fortification became widely adopted. Nevertheless, it gradually gained acceptance. The prosperity of the last years of the 18th century released the capital necessary to accumulate stocks of wine and mature them for longer. The superior ageing potential of Port wines that had been fortified became apparent. The turning point is sometimes said to have been the exceptional harvest of 1820 which produced Ports so magnificent that subsequent vintages could not approach their richness and power unless they were fortified. In any event, fortification had become widespread by the 1840s and by 1850 was probably universal.

But don't forget the Baron..

He campaigned against fortification until his death in 1862

[Andy Velebil]

My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?

No, from all I've read and been told there has never been an exact date where everything changed in unison. Hence, my use of "around". But around 1815 is generally regarded as the birth of modern Port. Though it wasn't believed until later, around the mid 1800's, where there seemed to be a more standard way of fortifying during fermentation.

[uncle tom]

Oldest port I've drunk was Ferreira 1830. Oldest I've opened was Unk 1851.

I have some half bottles of sherry with a solera date of 1770.

[Glenn E.]

The oldest I've tasted is an 1851 Warre.

[mpij]

The oldest port I've drunk is Taylor's 1945.

[mpij]

This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?

What's the oldest port you've drunk? And was it the oldest drink of any kind that you've had, or have there been others older?

By oldest dou you mean earliest or of greater age when drunk? My answer would remain the same either way.

[jdaw1]

My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?

No, from all I've read and been told there has never been an exact date where everything changed in unison. Hence, my use of "around". But around 1815 is generally regarded as the birth of modern Port. Though it wasn't believed until later, around the mid 1800's, where there seemed to be a more standard way of fortifying during fermentation.

Your reply began ‟No”, then seemed to agree with me. At least one of us misunderstanding.

[LGTrotter]

1860 for madeira, 1927 for port are my vital statistics. I can never bring myself to fork out for older ports these days purely on the quality price ratio. Madeira I can understand lashing out on as there is a reasonable chance of getting something good.

There is a reprint of 'the earliest port wine label' in John Hurley's 'A matter of taste; a history of wine drinking in Britain' which I am sure I have seen elsewhere. It reads; Companhia geral, do alto douro, vino tinto do douro, do anno de seventeen fifty six (in figures). Is this actually likely to have been port in any meaningful sense?

[Glenn E.]

Is this actually likely to have been port in any meaningful sense?

In name only. As previously noted, Port wasn't generally a fortified wine until around 1815, so this would probably have been a dry red wine.

[g-man]

i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.

he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira

recently i had a 1896 madeira from berns steakhouse in tampa (was surprinsingly delicious)!

[jdaw1]

i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.

Old & Odd, Friday 7^th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)

he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira

1792, wedding leftovers?

[LGTrotter]

Old & Odd, Friday 7^th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)

No! A few hundred words of Wilde paint a better picture than all that 'gobs of wurzelberry and 94+ points' malarkey ever will. is poorer for your lack of 'pretension'.

[jdaw1]

No! A few hundred words of Wilde paint a better picture than all that 'gobs of wurzelberry and 94+ points' malarkey ever will. is poorer for your lack of 'pretension'.

The Lizards ! took an immense fancy to him, and when he grew tired of running about and flung himself down on the grass to rest, they played and romped all over him, and tried to amuse him in the best way they could. ‟Every one cannot be as beautiful as a lizard,” they cried; ‟that would be too much to expect. And, though it sounds absurd to say so, he is really not so ugly after all, provided, of course, that one shuts one’s eyes, and does not look at him.”

In my simple way, if it stinks, it stinks, and I don’t like it.

And it was bunberry, not wurzelberry.

[g-man]

i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.

Old & Odd, Friday 7^th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)

he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira

1792, wedding leftovers?

yes and no.

I believe you were going to a madiera tastin ghte next day, this was the day you were leaving ny and i brought the 1924 Taylor

[jdaw1]

I believe you were going to a madiera tastin ghte next day, this was the day you were leaving ny and i brought the 1924 Taylor

So on Tuesday 7^th July 2009? If so, that was a Soviet 1936 Lividia.

[LGTrotter]

In my simple way, if it stinks, it stinks, and I don’t like it.

And it was bunberry, not wurzelberry.

I think Mr Wilde also said that anyone who called a spade a spade should be compelled to use one.

Perhaps you were on a 'Bunberry' to New York but I doubt you tasted one.

[jdaw1]

Cecily. This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.
Gwendolen. I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

Are we drifting off subject?

[LGTrotter]

Cecily. This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.
Gwendolen. I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

Are we drifting off subject?

Oh yes. But I see you are still quoting Oscar at me. Which gives me a the same warm feeling that 'the Happy Prince' must have had.