Handwriting questions

Anything to do with Port.
Post Reply
User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 15:25 Mon 17 Aug 2015

On what date did the wine merchant deliver this Port?
Image
Is it “4 Jan 1911” (which was a Wednesday)?

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 15:37 Mon 17 Aug 2015

Are there any immediately preceding or subsequent dates in the ledger?
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 15:37 Mon 17 Aug 2015

And is this definitely a date?
Is it possible to include more of the surrounding text as context?
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 16:57 Mon 17 Aug 2015

Reload previous image. And
Image

Yes, definitely a date.

PhilW
Dow 1980
Posts: 2834
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by PhilW » 17:13 Mon 17 Aug 2015

Agree on "4 Jan 1911"

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 17:16 Mon 17 Aug 2015

Yes. Seeing his looped Js and the rounded nature of his other characters confirms this.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 17:22 Mon 17 Aug 2015

Thank you team.

User avatar
flash_uk
Dow 1980
Posts: 2948
Joined: 20:02 Thu 13 Feb 2014
Location: London

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by flash_uk » 17:31 Mon 17 Aug 2015

And Jan makes sense given the chronological sequencing - it immediately follows 1914, and is then followed by date entries which look like March and April.

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 17:42 Mon 17 Aug 2015

flash_uk wrote:And Jan makes sense given the chronological sequencing - it immediately follows 1914, and is then followed by date entries which look like March and April.
You're looking at the wrong image.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 16:49 Thu 27 Aug 2015

Who is the second partner in the wine merchant selling the Martinez 1904?
Image

Not scaled, brightened, added contrast:
Image

Could it be (a surprisingly French) “frère”? Or “friere”, with lower-case ‘f’?

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 18:54 Thu 27 Aug 2015

& Grieve.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12206
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by AHB » 18:54 Thu 27 Aug 2015

Look at the similarity of the start of the unknown word to the two occurrences of "the" earlier in the photo. I would see the unknown word as being something such as THRIEVE
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 18:56 Thu 27 Aug 2015

Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 18:58 Thu 27 Aug 2015

Thrieve? Are you smoking crack? That's an 'and' sign (reduced ampersand) and a G.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 19:01 Thu 27 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:& Grieve.
Interesting.
And this picture came from Trinity College.

Edit: your researching the name was faster.

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1963
Posts: 12206
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by AHB » 21:16 Thu 27 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:Thrieve? Are you smoking crack? That's an 'and' sign (reduced ampersand) and a G.
No. Skunk. Goes better with Dow '91.
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15428
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by DRT » 21:39 Thu 27 Aug 2015

AHB wrote:
djewesbury wrote:Thrieve? Are you smoking crack? That's an 'and' sign (reduced ampersand) and a G.
No. Skunk. Goes better with Dow '91.
I completely agree.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 22:06 Thu 27 Aug 2015

I should point out that it was my keen, orthographic detective's eye which revealed the answer. Google followed after, as corroboration.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15428
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by DRT » 23:27 Thu 27 Aug 2015

djewesbury wrote:I should point out that it was my keen, orthographic detective's eye which revealed the answer. Google followed after, as corroboration.
I knew that. You are clearly feeling insecure in needing to point it out. Man up.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8157
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by djewesbury » 23:39 Thu 27 Aug 2015

I just thought I should advertise my good points. Like the Americans do.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 22:50 Tue 01 Sep 2015

Small image:
Image
Link to large image, with original colouration.

“Sealed G. B. Clarke & Co”? “… & Son”? Other?

(Nothing else in this hand: no further clues.)

User avatar
DRT
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15428
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by DRT » 23:05 Tue 01 Sep 2015

& Co.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 00:47 Sat 12 Sep 2015

Whence comes this Croft 1834?
Image Image
(Second picture has added brightness and contrast, and colour completely de-saturated.)

PhilW
Dow 1980
Posts: 2834
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by PhilW » 07:15 Sat 12 Sep 2015

Bin No. 58 Port
1875 April 13 Bought by ?. C. ???? Esq
of ?? ?????? "1834"
Thompson and Crofts at 75/-
cost with expenses 100/-

I can't decipher the buyer's name or seller's name properly, the latter looks something like "Wm. Tilliffe" (shortened Wilhelm?) but I have no confidence in that reading. Does look like purchase of "1834 Thompson & Crofts" though, not just Croft.

User avatar
jdaw1
Cockburn 1900
Posts: 21376
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Handwriting questions

Post by jdaw1 » 10:21 Sat 12 Sep 2015

My question asked “whence”. You have answered everything else (though I think the no-expenses cost was 95/-). And Croft was formerly known as Thompson & Croft.

Post Reply