Port and literature

Anything to do with Port.
Glenn E.
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Posts: 3321
Joined: 22:27 Wed 09 Jul 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Port and literature

Post by Glenn E. » 06:17 Thu 14 Jan 2016

Ah, that explains it. Thanks!

(I don't think a spreadsheet counts as literature.)
Glenn Elliott

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8152
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by djewesbury » 14:59 Thu 14 Jan 2016

Presentation and performance is everything. Hard to do with a spreadsheet; I spent all yesterday filling a big one in the hope that the number in the bottom right would be the number we started with (it wasn't, but that was sort of the point). Get away with your spreadsheets.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1970
Posts: 10975
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by AHB » 21:46 Thu 14 Jan 2016

djewesbury wrote:Presentation and performance is everything. Hard to do with a spreadsheet; I spent all yesterday filling a big one in the hope that the number in the bottom right would be the number we started with (it wasn't, but that was sort of the point). Get away with your spreadsheets.
Don't diss my spreadsheet. It could change Owen's life! (Not necessarily for the better, I admit.)
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

PhilW
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2433
Joined: 14:22 Wed 15 Dec 2010
Location: Near Cambridge, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by PhilW » 22:14 Thu 14 Jan 2016

Did it tell you need to buy another 1000+ bottles of port?

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 10:20 Tue 19 Apr 2016

Waugh's Parthenon.

"It is not 'snow-white' as I have seen it described by quite responsible observers, but a singularly beautiful tone in very pale pinkish brown; the nearest parallel to it of Nature that I can think of is that of the milder parts of a Stilton cheese into which port has been poured."

From Waugh's book 'Labels'.

TLW
Taylor’s LBV
Posts: 169
Joined: 07:51 Sat 01 Dec 2012

Re: Port and literature

Post by TLW » 21:47 Thu 05 May 2016

In the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Gloria Scott", Sherlock Holmes says, "One evening, shortly after my arrival, we were sitting over a glass of port after dinner, when young Trevor began to talk about those habits of observation and inference which I had already formed into a system..."

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19616
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by jdaw1 » 23:58 Thu 05 May 2016

LGTrotter, on Wednesday 17th July 2013, wrote:I have to mention Dorothy L Sayers. At various times Lord Peter Wimsey is drinking port, usually Cockburn. There is one ('Clouds of Witness'?) where Murbles the solicitor is left a case of the Cockburn 1847 by a grateful client in their will. Drinking the wine in the 1920s they pronounce it dead; 'a ghost merely', however Andre Simon reports it alive and well in 'Vintagewise' in the 1930s. I have a feeling that Ms Sayers and her ficticious paramour Lord Peter liked their port younger and fruitier than I do.
Re-reading early posts of this thread — as, perhaps, a substitute for the education to which I paid too little attention — this was noticed. ¿Is its author sure of the date of Vintagewise? My edition is 1951.

User avatar
DRT
Graham’s 1948
Posts: 14970
Joined: 23:51 Wed 20 Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by DRT » 07:48 Fri 06 May 2016

jdaw1 wrote:
LGTrotter, on Wednesday 17th July 2013, wrote:I have to mention Dorothy L Sayers. At various times Lord Peter Wimsey is drinking port, usually Cockburn. There is one ('Clouds of Witness'?) where Murbles the solicitor is left a case of the Cockburn 1847 by a grateful client in their will. Drinking the wine in the 1920s they pronounce it dead; 'a ghost merely', however Andre Simon reports it alive and well in 'Vintagewise' in the 1930s. I have a feeling that Ms Sayers and her ficticious paramour Lord Peter liked their port younger and fruitier than I do.
Re-reading early posts of this thread — as, perhaps, a substitute for the education to which I paid too little attention — this was noticed. ¿Is its author sure of the date of Vintagewise? My edition is 1951.
I haven't checked my copy, but my memory tells me that Vintagewise is an account of ALS's journey through the world of wine which recounts various events throughout his career. My reading of the above quote is that the book references Ck1847 as being alive when he tasted it in the 1930s rather than it being a reference to the publishing date. I could be wrong.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 07:53 Fri 06 May 2016

jdaw1 wrote:
LGTrotter, on Wednesday 17th July 2013, wrote:Re-reading early posts of this thread — as, perhaps, a substitute for the education to which I paid too little attention — this was noticed. ¿Is its author sure of the date of Vintagewise? My edition is 1951.
I am away from my book collection at present and I am unable to check. From memory I think the 1930s date comes from the tasting date rather than the book publication date.

EDIT; I see Derek has forestalled me, his interpretation being the same as mine.

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19616
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by jdaw1 » 08:58 Fri 06 May 2016

LGTrotter wrote:From memory I think the 1930s date comes from the tasting date rather than the book publication date.
Happiness — thank you.

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19616
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by jdaw1 » 23:45 Sat 07 May 2016

Wayward Tendrils of the Vine (1947), Ian Maxwell Campbell, page 61: “I remember another evening at ‘The Oaks’, again after a decanter of the ’58 [Lafite] had been discussed to our mutual satisfaction.”

I do like the verb: to discuss a decanter. Presumably only in company — one cannot discuss it alone.

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 23:55 Sat 07 May 2016

jdaw1 wrote:Wayward Tendrils of the Vine (1947), Ian Maxwell Campbell, page 61: “I remember another evening at ‘The Oaks’, again after a decanter of the ’58 [Lafite] had been discussed to our mutual satisfaction.”

I do like the verb: to discuss a decanter. Presumably only in company — one cannot discuss it alone.
Yes, you can discuss a decanter alone. One can also discuss a meal, either alone or with others. Or at least I think I could cite a precedent.

Andy Velebil
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
Posts: 2421
Joined: 22:16 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by Andy Velebil » 00:15 Sun 08 May 2016

LGTrotter wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Wayward Tendrils of the Vine (1947), Ian Maxwell Campbell, page 61: “I remember another evening at ‘The Oaks’, again after a decanter of the ’58 [Lafite] had been discussed to our mutual satisfaction.”

I do like the verb: to discuss a decanter. Presumably only in company — one cannot discuss it alone.
Yes, you can discuss a decanter alone. One can also discuss a meal, either alone or with others. Or at least I think I could cite a precedent.
Possibly causing you to be committed if overheard by the authorities

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 22:06 Sun 08 May 2016

Having given the precedent some thought I have come up with this.
"When the preparations were finished, he invited me with -"Now sir, bring forward your chair." And we all, including the rustic youth, drew round the table: an austere silence prevailing while we discussed our meal."
Wuthering Heights, chapter 2, Emily Bronte.

Now I would think that as you can 'discuss' a meal in silence it would not be necessary to have company to 'discuss' either a meal or a decanter. And yes Julian it is a lovely usage.

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19616
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by jdaw1 » 22:20 Sun 08 May 2016

Shorter OED (1985): “Discuss … v. … 7. To try the quality of (food or drink); to consume. (Somewhat joc.) 1815.”

The sort of event that would have been formerly have been called an “emergency” might in the future be titled “To discuss a few bottles of Port”.

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1970
Posts: 10975
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by AHB » 17:42 Mon 09 May 2016

jdaw1 wrote:Shorter OED (1985): “Discuss … v. … 7. To try the quality of (food or drink); to consume. (Somewhat joc.) 1815.”

The sort of event that would have been formerly have been called an “emergency” might in the future be titled “To discuss a few bottles of Port”.
Perhaps I should retitle the F63 case tasting to "A discussion of F63"?
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1970
Posts: 10975
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by AHB » 22:40 Mon 30 May 2016

djewesbury wrote:More from Ms Sayers. Nine Tailors. Having already had a bottle of claret with his lunch, Peter Wimsey has opened a bottle of Tuke Holdsworth 08 (the same vintage that the Rector remarks 'couldn't hurt a fly' at the beginning of the book, which Owen noted elsewhere).
' "This is very excellent port. Be good enough to finish the bottle, Bunter, because it would be a pity to waste it and if I have any more I shall be too sleepy to drive." '
This is in a book where he's already managed to drive his Daimler into a ditch...
Lord Peter, in the same book, also recommends the pub "...the Cat and Fiddle, where the port is remarkable and the claret not to be despised..."

My kind of pub.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1970
Posts: 10975
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by AHB » 20:47 Mon 21 Nov 2016

Charles Symington commented to me that Kind Hearts and Coronets includes a reference to Port. He couldn't be certain which port it was but believed it could have been Cockburn 1896.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

User avatar
Doggett
Graham’s The Tawny
Posts: 410
Joined: 17:40 Sun 20 Sep 2015
Location: Croydon

Re: Port and literature

Post by Doggett » 21:43 Mon 21 Nov 2016

Charles is correct on shipper...but the year is slightly earlier.

HENRY. Most interesting. My lord, the port is with you.
LOUIS. Oh.
HENRY. How do you find the wine?
LOUIS. Admirable.
HENRY. Cockburn '69.
LOUIS. Mm.
HENRY. No finer year, in my view. My doctor, though, is of a different opinion.
LOUIS. And what does he favour?
HENRY. Abstinence!

User avatar
jdaw1
Taylor 1900
Posts: 19616
Joined: 15:03 Thu 21 Jun 2007
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by jdaw1 » 23:19 Tue 22 Nov 2016

Doggett wrote:HENRY. Cockburn '69.
Sixty-nine?! Faked by Croft; produced by none other (I scorn your sole reference to Martinez.)

User avatar
AHB
Fonseca 1970
Posts: 10975
Joined: 13:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by AHB » 07:39 Wed 23 Nov 2016

Going back to my notes, Charles did say that the reference was to the Cockburn 1869. When I typed my post my finger autocorrected the obvious error.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 02:02 Sun 08 Jan 2017

Dorothy Sayers again in "Busman's honeymoon" (not one of her strongest) has Bunter, Wimsey's valet exploding with rage when Mrs Ruddle washes and stands upright two and a half dozen of the Cockburn '96. The horror.
Just for variation I am looking into a reference in Raymond Chandler's "The High Window", but I don't think there is mention of a shipper or year. More anon.

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8152
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by djewesbury » 11:06 Sun 08 Jan 2017

LGTrotter wrote:Dorothy Sayers again in "Busman's honeymoon" (not one of her strongest) has Bunter, Wimsey's valet exploding with rage when Mrs Ruddle washes and stands upright two and a half dozen of the Cockburn '96. The horror.
Just for variation I am looking into a reference in Raymond Chandler's "The High Window", but I don't think there is mention of a shipper or year. More anon.
Do you not remember we covered the Scandal of the Cockburn 96 a while ago in this thread? You must have been drinking too much of the stuff.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
Posts: 3666
Joined: 17:45 Fri 19 Oct 2012
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Port and literature

Post by LGTrotter » 23:19 Thu 12 Jan 2017

djewesbury wrote:
LGTrotter wrote:Dorothy Sayers again in "Busman's honeymoon" (not one of her strongest) has Bunter, Wimsey's valet exploding with rage when Mrs Ruddle washes and stands upright two and a half dozen of the Cockburn '96. The horror.
Just for variation I am looking into a reference in Raymond Chandler's "The High Window", but I don't think there is mention of a shipper or year. More anon.
Do you not remember we covered the Scandal of the Cockburn 96 a while ago in this thread? You must have been drinking too much of the stuff.
That I am tediously repetitive I will allow, but I think this is the first reference to "Busman's Honeymoon" made here or indeed anywhere else on this forum, unless I am wrong. Which has been known. Good day to you sir!

User avatar
djewesbury
Graham’s 1970
Posts: 8152
Joined: 20:01 Mon 31 Dec 2012
Location: Belfast
Contact:

Re: Port and literature

Post by djewesbury » 10:40 Fri 13 Jan 2017

LGTrotter wrote:That I am tediously repetitive I will allow, but I think this is the first reference to "Busman's Honeymoon" made here or indeed anywhere else on this forum, unless I am wrong. Which has been known. Good day to you sir!
Gad. I stand corrected then. I feel sure I had discussed those unfortunate bottles and poor unfortunate Mrs Ruddles with you all. That Noakes was always a bad lot though to be frank (rather than Frank) I think if I'd lived in the village I'd have murdered the lot of them, starting with Harriet.
Daniel J.
delete.. delete.. *sigh*.. delete...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest