Questions about tawny, colheita and vintage years

[jonker1541]

Hi guys, I'm sort of a newbie at this whole port thing, so I'm hoping you bear with me. Recently I discovered the fact that a 1999 Colheita I bought was much better than the 10 yo Tawny by the same house. This got me wandering and reading about tawny style port, and I have the following questions:

- For colheita, are the exact same barrels used as for tawny port? The ones that are considerably larger than the VP barrels?

- When does a port house decide a certain batch will be colheita? Do they decide right after fortification, or after a couple of years in the barrel? Would it be theoretically possible to use a sub-standard colheita in a 10 yo tawny blend?

- I know vintage years that are good for VP by heart at this point. However, do the VP years apply to colheita as well? I very often see colheita from non-declared years. Are these inferior to a colheita from a declared year?

- Is my assumption correct that the best port of a certain vintage is made into VP, the second batch into colheita, and the rest into tawny or ruby port? or is the process more complex?

Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Hi guys, I'm sort of a newbie at this whole port thing, so I'm hoping you bear with me. Recently I discovered the fact that a 1999 Colheita I bought was much better than the 10 yo Tawny by the same house. This got me wandering and reading about tawny style port, and I have the following questions:

- For colheita, are the exact same barrels used as for tawny port? The ones that are considerably larger than the VP barrels?

It depends. The winemaker will take a view on a lote by lote basis how he thinks the wines can best be supported in their development. If he (or she) wants to keep youthful and exuberant fruit then the port will be stored in stainless steel vats, a bit of oxidative aging then large wooden vats, lots of oxidative aging then small wooden pipas. Top tawny ports or colheitas tend to go into the smaller wooden barrels.

- When does a port house decide a certain batch will be colheita? Do they decide right after fortification, or after a couple of years in the barrel? Would it be theoretically possible to use a sub-standard colheita in a 10 yo tawny blend?

Again, it depends. Essentially by the end of the second winter the wine maker and blenders will have decided which lotes they think will be used for which wines but these decisions might well be made all the way through the 18 months between harvest and the end of the second winter. Whether a wine will be kept and used as a stock for blending of tawnies or used for a colheita can be a decision taken in many years time. The Graham 1952 colheita was only decided to be released as such in 2011, until that time it was a part of the tawny blending stocks but proved to be such a good wine on its own that it was bottled and sold as a colheita.

- I know vintage years that are good for VP by heart at this point. However, do the VP years apply to colheita as well? I very often see colheita from non-declared years. Are these inferior to a colheita from a declared year?

Absolutely not! A winemaker and port shipper with their reputations on the line will only bottle a colheita if they are convinced that it is up to scratch. If the wines for the colheita come from a year not widely regarded as a good year for vintage port (1937 say) that does not matter, what is important is the quality of the wine in the barrel. But you can also find good colheitas coming from mediocre vintage years (1986) or from very good vintage years (1994). I've never been able to figure out a connection between the two and now don't try any more.

- Is my assumption correct that the best port of a certain vintage is made into VP, the second batch into colheita, and the rest into tawny or ruby port? or is the process more complex?

It's a fair assumption, but it is wrong. I've been told that the characteristics of the grapes needed to make a good tawny or colheita are very different from those needed for a vintage or ruby port. The best of the lotes which show the ruby characteristics will be used for the vintage blend. Any ruby lotes not quite up to scratch or in too small a volume might be used to make Late Bottled Vintage, Crusted or Reserve ruby blends. The best tawny lotes will be held back to be used for blending into the premium tawny blends (40 year old, 20 year old, 10 year old) or possibly released as a colheita. Anything not used after all these other wines have been blended will be used in blending the basic rubies and tawnies.

[jonker1541]

Awesome response. Even though I was wrong about a LOT of things, I have not been able to find answers to these questions with a couple of evenings worth of Google, so I'm pretty grateful for your extensive explanations.

Now the question that remains is: How do you know whether or not you are buying a good Colheita? I'm assuming they do not mention on the bottle whether or not it was aged in stainless steel, pipas or anything inbetween. So based on what knowledge do you decide whether or not to buy a colheita? Would you have any knowledge that could help you decide whether a 1999-2012 Dow's Colheita would be any good? Or is it a matter of tasting?

[g-man]

Awesome response. Even though I was wrong about a LOT of things, I have not been able to find answers to these questions with a couple of evenings worth of Google, so I'm pretty grateful for your extensive explanations.

Now the question that remains is: How do you know whether or not you are buying a good Colheita? I'm assuming they do not mention on the bottle whether or not it was aged in stainless steel, pipas or anything inbetween. So based on what knowledge do you decide whether or not to buy a colheita? Would you have any knowledge that could help you decide whether a 1999-2012 Dow's Colheita would be any good? Or is it a matter of tasting?

Dow's is certainly a big house and the SFE has typically taken a very serious approach to ensure quality. As colheitas are typically aged much longer before release, I don't think you'll find any more "recent" years like 2007+.

It certainly is partially tasting, and other times hearsay from fellow tasters. The noval 1974 Colheita (i believe $150) is one of my personal favorites.

Some of the smaller houses show both quality and care at a lower price point too for their colheitas.

[Glenn E.]

Now the question that remains is: How do you know whether or not you are buying a good Colheita? I'm assuming they do not mention on the bottle whether or not it was aged in stainless steel, pipas or anything inbetween. So based on what knowledge do you decide whether or not to buy a colheita? Would you have any knowledge that could help you decide whether a 1999-2012 Dow's Colheita would be any good? Or is it a matter of tasting?

Those small barrels that you have seen - which are known as pipas and hold 550 liters - aren't VP barrels. They're typically Colheita barrels. VP ages in much larger wooden barrels called balseiros or toneis (two different sizes) because you typically don't want much if any oxidation to take place in a VP before it is bottled. VPs are meant to age in bottle, not wood; that's what distinguishes them from Colheitas.

Colheitas aren't typically aged at all in stainless steel - they're aged almost exclusively in the small 550 liter pipas because you want as much wood exposure as you can get. It is my understanding that the large stainless steel vats are typically only used for basic rubies and possibly ruby reserves. I believe that even LBVs spend most of their aging time in wood, though again it is the much larger balseiros and toneis that are used in order to minimize oxidation.

Since all producers use essentially the same aging process (Niepoort being the only exception I can think of), finding a Colheita you like really comes down to tasting. The number of years in wood and the producer are probably the two biggest variables to consider, though the number of years since bottling is also important. That's why you'll always find a bottling date on a Colheita, typically on the back label. Conventional wisdom says that Colheitas should be consumed as close to the bottling date as possible, but 3-5 years in bottle isn't a problem at all. (I won't go any further with the bottle age debate as that could take pages to explain.)

While the big producers all typically make both VP and Colheita, the best producers of each are different. It seems that it takes a different knack to make a great Colheita than it does to make a great VP. While Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, et al all make very good aged tawnies, the best Colheitas come from other producers such as Kopke, Quinta do Noval, Niepoort, Andressen, Burmester, and others.

One last tip - tawnies that have an indication of age on the label (10 year old, 20 year old, etc) are blends from multiple years. The label tells you the style that they're trying to reproduce with the blend. Colheitas have a date on the lable (1957, 1966, etc) and so in that sense are like Vintage Port. All of the grapes come from that year of harvest. The longer a Colheita has been aged in wood the more it takes on nutty and/or dried fruit flavors. But because they aren't blended to achieve a particular flavor profile, it typically takes longer for Colheitas to pick up the same flavors that you'll find in a tawny with an indication of age. If you've been enjoying 10-yr old tawnies, I would recommend that you start with at least a 15-yr old Colheita. And by that I mean one that was aged for 15 years in wood - subtract from the bottling date, not today's date! If you've been enjoying 20-yr olds, aim for a 30-yr old Colheita to get a similar sense of maturity.

[uncle tom]

While some lame vintage years emerge as good colheita years, such as 1959 & 1968; many of the good colheita years were good vintages that were passed over, often because they fell adjacent to other good vintage years, or for other reasons - 1937 was probably going to be declared, but the outbreak of WWII spoiled the plan. 1952 was a decent vintage, but the market for port had completely collapsed at that point. 1974 was probably a better year than 1975, but the turmoil of the Portuguese revolution made a declaration impossible.

Vintages that yield slightly lighter wines also seem to fare better as colheita years than those that produce dark tannic wines, such as 1978, 1982 and 1986.

I'm no great fan of recently bottled colheitas - 15 years in wood followed by another 15 in bottle seems a good formula.

[Andy Velebil]

Colheitas aren't typically aged at all in stainless steel - they're aged almost exclusively in the small 550 liter pipas because you want as much wood exposure as you can get. It is my understanding that the large stainless steel vats are typically only used for basic rubies and possibly ruby reserves. I believe that even LBVs spend most of their aging time in wood, though again it is the much larger balseiros and toneis that are used in order to minimize oxidation.

Correction to this. As AHB pointed out earlier in his reply, there are a LOT of variables in tawny production.

Colheita's can be aged in stainless steel (SS). While typically they are aged in barrel, if the evolution is progressing too fast they can be placed in SS tanks to slow that oxidation process down. Same goes for LBV's, they too can and often are stored in SS for some part of their life prior to bottling. It all depends on how the winemaker feels the wine is evolving. Too fast, put it in SS to slow things down. Too slow, allow it more oxidation in barrel. As this can and does vary lot by lot, even within the same vintage, it is impossible to give a definitive answer to this question.

[Andy Velebil]

While some lame vintage years emerge as good colheita years, such as 1959 & 1968; many of the good colheita years were good vintages that were passed over, often because they fell adjacent to other good vintage years, or for other reasons - 1937 was probably going to be declared, but the outbreak of WWII spoiled the plan. 1952 was a decent vintage, but the market for port had completely collapsed at that point. 1974 was probably a better year than 1975, but the turmoil of the Portuguese revolution made a declaration impossible.

Vintages that yield slightly lighter wines also seem to fare better as colheita years than those that produce dark tannic wines, such as 1978, 1982 and 1986.

I'm no great fan of recently bottled colheitas - 15 years in wood followed by another 15 in bottle seems a good formula.

One needs to be careful when trying to draw parallels as it pertains to Colheita's. What isn't mentioned is in prior years, and before the recent rise in popularity of SQVP's, in non-classic declared years the best grapes often went into making top notch tawny's. Those top notch grapes, which otherwise would have been used to make a VP, were often used to make a fantastic Colheita (or blended to give complexity to a tawny).

Most very good Colheita's come from non-classic years simply as the top notch grapes get put toward them.

A bit off topic, but relevant....As for 1937, what most people don't know is the Casa do Douro bought huge amounts of 1937 Ports from producers given the worlds events at the time. A lot of that was then bought by producers years later. It's no different than recently how all of a sudden all these companies had enough stock of aged white tawny's to produce a full range of aged white tawny's. The Casa do Douro still serves as an important resource for a producer.

[roel]

Colheita's can be aged in stainless steel (SS). While typically they are aged in barrel, if the evolution is progressing too fast they can be placed in SS tanks to slow that oxidation process down.

Would this be in conjunction with the regulations?

They state:

" «Vinho do Porto com data de colheita» vinho do Porto, tinto ou branco, com características organolépticas de elevada qualidade e proveniente de uma só vindima, com estágio em madeira durante um período mínimo de sete anos após a vindima e reconhecido pelo IVDP com direito ao uso da indicação nos termos dos números seguintes."

We could argue semantics, but putting a Colheita in SS would, according to this text, only be permitted /after/ the initial 7 years according to one possible interpretation, or simply not at all if you interpret it in another way. I can't see it being open for any interpretation that would allow it in SS in the first 7 years.

Do you know of any wine makers that actually put their colheita's in SS?

Roel.