ideas for port tasting for novices for self-education

[novillero]

I am new to the forum. Here is my basic background: I drink port, usually having a bottle or two in the house. But I am by no means a connoisseur, but rather consider myself a casual drinker. I haven't had a port that I didn't like. I've tasted the range at different times, but never side by side. Just one at a time.

I am looking to expand my knowledge. I have invited several friends over to my house who are probably in the same "boat" as me.

My thought for an initial evening was to provide several cask-aged ports:

I was thinking of providing small samplings of basic styles:
- white (maybe) (my current stock in the house is Warre's Fine White)
- ruby (none currently in the house - need to buy)
- ruby reserve (Currently have Fonseca bin #27)
- tawny (none currently in the house - need to buy)
- 10 year (currently have Graham's)
- 20 year (none currently in the house - need to buy)

I was then thinking that since I have to stock up on some types for this little soire, and as we will all be novices, that the best way to start our education would be to use a single producer for all, or a single producer for the rubies and a single for the tawnies. (would this be considered a "vertical"?)

I also have an LBV (Presidential 2007) and 1991 Niepoort colheita in the house. But thought that perhaps I should save those for another date, again as the group in general likes port, but we are not educated port drinkers. My personal goal is to get a deeper understanding of port, and I thought that seeing the evolution of cask-aged ports would be a good start.

What do you think:
(1) go with single producer for the styles mentioned above?
(2) go with single producer for rubies, can go another for tawnies?
(3) interesting, but why don't you try this .... [insert your suggestion].

I also wouldn't mind thoughts on themes for future port tastings for building up knowledge.

Thanks.

[g-man]

I personally like the idea of getting a single house and trying all the varieties,

chances are the wine maker is the same and allows you just to see the different styles.

JohnM of the boards does what you just mention with his group of friends so he may chime in.

My standpoint is that I rather enjoy grahams line up for this as they're approachable and distinctive enough to get a feel.

once you figure out the potential styles you like I find it useful for me to branch out to other producers and do a comparison of the single style of port.

taylor fladgate is also another popular one.

[John M]

Dear Novillero;

G-Man is correct...I have a group of port friends, most of whom are novices, and we tend to taste in groupings as you describe.

Generally, it is not ideal to switch around from tanwies to rubies to whites without a little interlude between. Also, sticking to one house is a great idea--if you can find everything you need from that one house readily AND if you have a house that makes it all. Keep in mind, some houses, IMHO, are better at ruby over tawny and vice versa so you'd want to stick with some of the more major brands if you did an across the board tasting (Taylor Fladgate, Fonseca, Grahams as a few). If you keep it to just tawnies, or just rubies its a little easier.

Too me, you have a lot of variables, some of which may be alleviated and simplified by arranging a few events instead of just one (More events = more fun). This would also allow you to compare different brands of the same type (such as a group of Late Bottle Vintages, a group or reserve rubies, or a group of 10 year old tawnies, etc.). You could even do two groups in the same evening to accelerate the process.

Unless doing an across the board tasting I'd skip the basic tawnies and rubies--there's nothing wrong with them, but you won't glean much either. For ruby go to Ruby Reserves or LBVs (for a couple dollars of basic you can get ruby reserve and there's a marked difference over basic ruby). For tawnies I'd go straight to 10 year olds.

In the end, you really can do no wrong so don't sweat it too much. I do try to find themes for the tastings, whether its a vertical, horizontal, a group of random LBVs or whatever--in the end its always great fun and we learn something.

One last thing, with a set group of tasters, you may want to give thought about forming a club and club logistics. We have initiation dues, event dues, a hosting rotation, and a collective six dozen glasses--its not overwhelming but it is something to consider. If you want more details on what we do, I'll be happy to elaborate (and we went through some growing pains with it).

Cheers!

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'd probably approach things slightly differently. Most people will generally have a preference for either tawny port or for ruby port. Perhaps it would be a great opportunity to offer people a chance to try the two styles and see which they prefer. You could choose 3 bottles of 10 year old tawny and 3 bottles of ruby reserve and have two flights each of three ports.

From there you can gradually move up or down the quality ladder by trying young colheitas against LBVs, old colheitas against vintage port and even various styles of white in the summer when white port comes into its own (especially mixed with tonic) and could be tasted against pink port.

[PhilW]

I would agree with AHB's approach to focus initially on preference between Ruby vs Tawny, though I would include vintage/lbv as well; I did a similar event for a group of friends in a similar position last year which went very well. This group were mostly people who had enjoyed "a glass of port" from a restaurant at the end of a meal, but knew no more than that - I provided a ruby (reserve), an LBV, vintage, a tawny (10yr) and a half-bottle of young colheita.

The two main things that the group took away was (i) they understood whether they preferred ruby (reserve/lbv/vintage) or tawny (tawny/colheita) port, and (ii) they could see the difference between the different grades, to make their own judgement on value for money as to which they might pay for themselves in future.

For the same type of group I would definitely repeat the format, it seemed to work well; if there is then enough interest, you can do follow-up tastings of a variety of tawny ports, various LBVs or various vintage ports (likely trying the same type of offering from several houses to see which is preferred) as suits the group taste.

Phil.

[John M]

AHB concept is great, too and certainly a way to taste both tawnies and rubies in one event. Its all good.

[g-man]

Feels like what we're all saying is just drink lots

[mosesbotbol]

How many people are attending and what is the "per head" cost you'd like keep it at. I'd go with one house like Graham, Dow, or Taylor; picking basic bottles of each style, with one 20+ old VP, basic, 10 and 20 year tawny, basic ruby, and current LBV. The current LBV vs. older VP will be close enough and even better if you have basic ruby too.

[John M]

From what is being described, you could do this for about $200 to $300 including a little bit of food to nosh.

[DRT]

I disagree with most of my learned friends above.

If this is a real novice tasting you should be focusing on the different styles rather than worrying about producers.

My advice would be to pick one producer and have one bottle from each of the different styles they produce. It really doesn't matter which producer, provided they are not from the low end of the market.

For example: Graham's produce a white, ruby, Six Grapes, 10/20/30/40 yr Tawny, LBV, Single Quinta and Vintage Port. Many others will match that list and more. Pick one producer and taste their full range, or as close as you can manage. It will tell you all you need to know about port styles.

[Glenn E.]

I disagree with most of my learned friends above.

If this is a real novice tasting you should be focusing on the different styles rather than worrying about producers.

My advice would be to pick one producer and have one bottle from each of the different styles they produce. It really doesn't matter which producer, provided they are not from the low end of the market.

For example: Graham's produce a white, ruby, Six Grapes, 10/20/30/40 yr Tawny, LBV, Single Quinta and Vintage Port. Many others will match that list and more. Pick one producer and taste their full range, or as close as you can manage. It will tell you all you need to know about port styles.

I agree with Derek. Beginners might be able to tell the difference between Fonseca bin 27 and Graham's Six Grapes (both Ruby Reserves), but it won't tell them much of anything about either producer. A more important discovery to make when you're just starting to explore Port is what style(s) do you like.

Serve a white, or better yet a 10-yr old White if you can find one, a 10-yr old Tawny, a Colheita from the 70s or 80s, a Ruby Reserve, an LBV, and a VP. The Colheita and the VP will be your expensive bottles, and it will be obvious why if well chosen.

Off the top of my head the only producer who could supply all of those bottles easily is Kopke or possibly Dalva. The aged Whites are the difficult bottles... very few producers make them right now. A standard white Port is at the lowest tier of quality - comparable with a standard tawny or a standard ruby - and even novice Port drinkers will probably find all three categories lacking. They're high-volume sellers, but they're used mostly for cooking as I understand it.

[John M]

There, isn't that clear now???

I'm trying to hook him up with a wine rep who did an across the board tasting for us--a lot of entry level stuff, a 10 year tawny, and LBV and a VP. However, the producer is not a top of the line one.

[uncle tom]

Feels like what we're all saying is just drink lots

I try to avoid drinking the same port twice (at home) within a 12 month period - diversity of consumption educates..

[novillero]

Here is the line-up, which came about from my personal stockpile, what was available at the nearby stores, and how those fit with my own ideas.

This is a tasting of 6 people, all novices port tasters.

When they walk in, they will be served a white chilled port, Warre's. (I am thinking that I may the only person in the group that ever had white port before).

Then ruby reserves:
Graham's 6 grapes
Fonseca bin 27
Warre's Warrior.

followed by a Presidential 2007 lbv from (bottled in 2011).

then
Graham's 10 year;
Graham's 20 year;

And I am not sure if I should open the 1990 Niepoort colheita (or should I scratch the lbv? or keep both?)

Next question, what to serve. This is not a dinner, but any recommendations for accompanying foods would be appreciated.

[Glenn E.]

That sounds like a great tasting to me. You could serve the 1990 Colheita with the two other tawnies - it will be interesting to compare it to the 20-yr old as they are about the same age.

[novillero]

I wish I had the experience to be able to put to aptly words to the experience of tonight's tasting. So I will generalize: first of all, we had happy customers. one consumer of port confessed that he didn't think he liked port before the night started (obviously now he has an appreciation and understanding of port). The port tasted great, and I think the guests liked a slight elevation of sophistication from their regular drinking habits. I tried to keep it fitting to my experience of a gentleman's drink, while keeping the evening light.

I started with Warre's white port while we waited for all of the guests to arrive.

Then as noted, we went to the ruby reserves: Graham's, Fonseca and Warre's. I copied the winemaker's notes for each port before the night started to give guests an idea of what they were tasting and what to look for in their glass. I was surprised to see that the Warre's and Graham's ruby reserves had the same exact descriptions, but then later realized that both were Symington family ports. Regardless of the descriptions, our novices tasting the difference and the tasters selected the Warre's Warrior as their preferred ruby reserve.

Next we engaged the tawnies: Graham's 10 year and 20 year, and then the 1990 Niepoort colheita. Tastes were across the board for their favorite. No clear winner.

okay, so none of us were experts. We are all novices. The end result was that the novices all had a great time. We did learn about port, the origins, the different type and what some of those types taste like. One member is encourage to hold the next port tasting.

So, thanks for the words of advice. We are on our way to our second event...

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm delighted to hear the event went well and that people generally enjoyed the ports. Congratulations on a successful first port offline!

And please free to ask for suggestions for offline number 2...

[jdaw1]

okay, so none of us were experts. We are all novices.

Everybody on this forum has been a novice. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. (Or, in the western version, a journey of a dozen pipes begins with a single sip.)

[PhilW]

Glad it went well for you. You mentioned the preferred ruby, and (no) preferred Tawny; Did you find that most people liked both, or was there an overall group preference between the two styles?

[novillero]

PhilW,

I was looking for a preferred tawny from Grahams so we could see the progression to the 10 and 20. But I got tired of peeking in and out of liquor stores looking for it, and never wound up buying a tawny.

There was no style of port that went without compliments, even the introductory chilled white port. At the end of the night, the preferred port style overall was either the 10 or the 20 year old.

One friend in attendance told me his cousin was inducted as a Cavaleiro da Confraria do Vinho do Porto (he lives a little drive away, but in the U.S.). I am hoping to get him to assist in the future.

[PhilW]

PhilW,

I was looking for a preferred tawny from Grahams so we could see the progression to the 10 and 20. But I got tired of peeking in and out of liquor stores looking for it, and never wound up buying a tawny.

There was no style of port that went without compliments, even the introductory chilled white port. At the end of the night, the preferred port style overall was either the 10 or the 20 year old.

One friend in attendance told me his cousin was inducted as a Cavaleiro da Confraria do Vinho do Porto (he lives a little drive away, but in the U.S.). I am hoping to get him to assist in the future.

I did wonder whether, without a vintage in the ruby/lbv/vintage line, that the tawnies might win out; it sounds like the group is sufficiently enthused to carry on experimenting which is great. If you have a Cavaleiro friend-of-a-friend, (s/)he shouldn't take much persuading to join you either

[mosesbotbol]

Tawny ends the night in my opinion unless Madeira is being served. Well, if a vintage port is older than the tawny or colheita, I would have to have them side by side. Tawny or colheita shold more oxidized and acidic.