So, who IS the fairest of them all?
The market dictates NN31 to be the top dog - but is that more down to scarcity than quality?
When was this wine last tasted objectively, and found to be supreme?
The last recorded encounter appears to have been a disappointing experience for those involved, but it may have been a duff bottle.
Broadbent seems to have had the wine just once, and that was 25 years ago, while Suckling had an encounter in 1989, but in circumstances that made it difficult for him to be entirely objective - he was being treated by an enthusiast who had just shelled out a fortune for the bottle..
Mayson, despite being a clear fan of Nacional, does not appear to have had the pleasure.
I can attest to the quality and remarkable youthfullness of the 'regular' N31, but the wine will not last forever.
I wonder which wine will be hailed as the fairest of them all in a generation's time??
Tom
Mirror, mirror..
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uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Mirror, mirror..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Great ports
My one taste of the NN31, at the Linden Wilkie spectacular, was not as great as it should have been. (Neither was the N31.) My one other taste of the N31, in 2004, was a duff bottle. So my 1931 experience is so far below reputation.
The best port I ever had was a Noval 1963 (yes, really), bottled by Queens’ College Cambridge. My last of these was drunk in 2004 (against the duff N31), and it was stuffed with fruit and length. One drinker complained of “too much damson jam”.
Other great candidates are from the recent Fonseca vertical, including 1966 and 1970.
The best port I ever had was a Noval 1963 (yes, really), bottled by Queens’ College Cambridge. My last of these was drunk in 2004 (against the duff N31), and it was stuffed with fruit and length. One drinker complained of “too much damson jam”.
Other great candidates are from the recent Fonseca vertical, including 1966 and 1970.
Last edited by jdaw1 on 21:37 Sun 30 Sep 2007, edited 2 times in total.
Tom,
Doesn't it change, as time goes by. Or are you asking, what was the best, at its prime? Then presumably, if the taste cant be split into 1st's and 2nd's, you take account of longevity of how it stayed that good.
The NN31 may have been the best, although I severly doubt it, I suspect it's mythology and scarcity too. Yet even if it was the best, time will catch with it, and eventually you will have a weak tawny, where once was a Giant amongst Ports.
I could throw in a few Ports that have excited me, but I would be embarassed to do so, when there are those who have tasted thousands, rather than hundreds. So go on Tom, throw your 2 or 3 that were close to 100 points! (Or 10/10) which I personally think should never be achieved!
Alan
Doesn't it change, as time goes by. Or are you asking, what was the best, at its prime? Then presumably, if the taste cant be split into 1st's and 2nd's, you take account of longevity of how it stayed that good.
The NN31 may have been the best, although I severly doubt it, I suspect it's mythology and scarcity too. Yet even if it was the best, time will catch with it, and eventually you will have a weak tawny, where once was a Giant amongst Ports.
I could throw in a few Ports that have excited me, but I would be embarassed to do so, when there are those who have tasted thousands, rather than hundreds. So go on Tom, throw your 2 or 3 that were close to 100 points! (Or 10/10) which I personally think should never be achieved!
Alan
Last edited by Conky on 08:37 Mon 01 Oct 2007, edited 1 time in total.
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KillerB
- Taylor Quinta de Vargellas 1987
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I am sad enough to say that Fonsecas from 1963, 1966 and 1970 make up the best Ports that I have ever tasted and I have had all of them more than once. I am now a fully paid-up Fonseca freak.
I don't actually have much as every time I get a good one I find a reason to drink it. I cannot afford huge outlays on cases of the stuff, so I enjoy them all the more when I have them.
I don't actually have much as every time I get a good one I find a reason to drink it. I cannot afford huge outlays on cases of the stuff, so I enjoy them all the more when I have them.
Port is basically a red drink
Not sad: excellent port in the very top rank.
Not sad: excellent port in the very top rank. May I drink much more of it.KillerB wrote:sad enough to say that Fonsecas from 1963, 1966 and 1970
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uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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10-10 on my scale is not unachievable - a wine that is in the top 5% of all VP's with the stamina to continue in like form for another decade.So go on Tom, throw your 2 or 3 that were close to 100 points! (Or 10/10) which I personally think should never be achieved!
However, I agree that it is not credible for any wine to score 100 on the Parker scale, if correctly calculated.
The answer to my question is that I'm really not sure - the '45's are waning now, and the '55's and '63's are beginning to run out of steam. My experience of the '48's is notable by it's absence - something I hope to correct before the end of the year.
The best '70's will last a very long time, as will some 2000's - I think the '94's - while very good - will be relatively short lived, while the '91's may emerge to surprise us in later years.
I need to drink more '66 - I have mixed impressions of that year..
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
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Assuming that a generation represents 20 years, which are the wines that I think will be at the absolute peak in both drinking impact and reputation amongst the cognosceti.
For me there is only one, the Quinta do Noval Nacional 1963. I'm surprised that Julian didn't mention this in his posting and I'd be interested to hear what let that wine down in his view. For me, it was far and away the best port at the tasting in March and on the only other two occasions I have had this port it was magnificant and far outperformed its peers. It is superb now and, I believe, will still be superb and on song in 20 years time.
After that, there are a variety that all jostle for places. The Fonseca or Graham '66 I believe will still be fabulous and their siblings from 1970 will be there jostling alongside.
I have a different view from Tom on the '94s. I think these will last and last and last and will be the '63s of our generation. Which means that they will likely hit their apogee at around the age of 30-35 and be drinking superbly in 2027. The best '94 for me is the Vesuvio or perhaps the Nacional. Then, like many of the '63s, they may risk fading away. I suspect that we may see some of the other Seely Nacionals also performing in a stunning way in 20 years and at that time these ports may be starting to show what they can deliver. They are too closed and too brutal today for me to be able to comment on what I think they will be like when I am in my mid-sixties. From my limited experience I also suggest that the great '45s and possibly the Noval '31 will still be up there with the greatest wines.
But I wonder if "The Best Port" of the next generation will come from somewhere unexpected, which enhances its reputation and therefore its rarity. The Nacional 1987 - a great year that wasn't declared - or the Gould Campbell 1977 - a lesser shipper who just got everything right that year - or the Graham 1980 - a year that has been written off in the minds of many port drinkers. Perhaps even the superb Noval 1997 will be a candidate as a result of its quality and the fact that an administrative error meant that the Quinta sold all its stocks of this wine instead of holding some back for later release.
Who knows, but you can be sure that the people reading this thread will be fairly influential in buiding up those reputations and deciding who inherits the "Noval Nacional 1931 Award for Outstanding Quality" in 2027.
Alex
For me there is only one, the Quinta do Noval Nacional 1963. I'm surprised that Julian didn't mention this in his posting and I'd be interested to hear what let that wine down in his view. For me, it was far and away the best port at the tasting in March and on the only other two occasions I have had this port it was magnificant and far outperformed its peers. It is superb now and, I believe, will still be superb and on song in 20 years time.
After that, there are a variety that all jostle for places. The Fonseca or Graham '66 I believe will still be fabulous and their siblings from 1970 will be there jostling alongside.
I have a different view from Tom on the '94s. I think these will last and last and last and will be the '63s of our generation. Which means that they will likely hit their apogee at around the age of 30-35 and be drinking superbly in 2027. The best '94 for me is the Vesuvio or perhaps the Nacional. Then, like many of the '63s, they may risk fading away. I suspect that we may see some of the other Seely Nacionals also performing in a stunning way in 20 years and at that time these ports may be starting to show what they can deliver. They are too closed and too brutal today for me to be able to comment on what I think they will be like when I am in my mid-sixties. From my limited experience I also suggest that the great '45s and possibly the Noval '31 will still be up there with the greatest wines.
But I wonder if "The Best Port" of the next generation will come from somewhere unexpected, which enhances its reputation and therefore its rarity. The Nacional 1987 - a great year that wasn't declared - or the Gould Campbell 1977 - a lesser shipper who just got everything right that year - or the Graham 1980 - a year that has been written off in the minds of many port drinkers. Perhaps even the superb Noval 1997 will be a candidate as a result of its quality and the fact that an administrative error meant that the Quinta sold all its stocks of this wine instead of holding some back for later release.
Who knows, but you can be sure that the people reading this thread will be fairly influential in buiding up those reputations and deciding who inherits the "Noval Nacional 1931 Award for Outstanding Quality" in 2027.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
I can agree with Jdaw on the regular Noval 63. I had a stunning bottle of this in January this year. Alex, you have some from the same batch 
My number 1 is Fonseca 66. Close behind are NN63, F63 and Grahams 63.
My wildcards are Grahams 85 and Dow 80. Both stunning on each occasion I have had them with a very long life ahead.
My number 1 is Fonseca 66. Close behind are NN63, F63 and Grahams 63.
My wildcards are Grahams 85 and Dow 80. Both stunning on each occasion I have had them with a very long life ahead.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Noval ’63s
Though the best port ever to pass my lips was a Noval ’63, I have also had many mediocre N63s.Derek T. wrote:I can agree with Jdaw on the regular Noval 63.
The best port ever to pass my lips was a Noval ’63; but many Noval ’63s to pass my lips have been very far from good. Unreliabletastic.