2010 Declarations

[JacobH]

We don’t seem to have a proper 2010 declarations thread yet.

In a (partial) reversal of 2010, we now know that the Taylor Fladgate Partnership aren’t putting out any Vintage Port for 2010 whilst the Symingtons have declared their full range of SQVPs (Vesuvio, Bomfim, Malvedos, Canais &c. &c).

With the much lamented demise of InfoPortWine, for the first time in many years I don’t really have much sense of an overview as to what else has been declared and will be available. Has anyone gone for a full declaration or will we just see SQVPs?

The Port I’m most interested in trying is the Quinta dos Canais since this will be the first Cockburn Vintage Port since the Symington take-over and their (unreleased) 2009 was fabulous. I just hope we don’t have to wait 10 years for them to release it to try it!

[uncle tom]

It seems a little odd that the Symingtons have gone for the full monty of SQs, while the TFP have gone for the zero option..

I believe Oscar is declaring Vale d'Agodinho 2010

[RonnieRoots]

What I find interesting is that the Symington press release speaks of big wines that will age for a long time (at least that's what they say for the Dow Ribeira), and TFP did not declare because of lack of tannin structure. How can this be? Looking forward to seeing some tasting notes on the declared ports to see how they really are.

[uncle tom]

Looking forward to seeing some tasting notes on the declared ports to see how they really are

The Vesuvio and Senhora da Ribeira are on the list for tomorrow's BFT event in London, so you shouldn't have to wait too long!

[JacobH]

What I find interesting is that the Symington press release speaks of big wines that will age for a long time (at least that's what they say for the Dow Ribeira), and TFP did not declare because of lack of tannin structure. How can this be? Looking forward to seeing some tasting notes on the declared ports to see how they really are.

The fact that they say they will release these wines ‟when they are ready to drink” in about 10 years’ time somewhat militates against that!

Anyway, my impression of the harvest in 2010 was it was very variable and so it may just be that the Symingtons got more of the right grapes in at the right time than Taylor Fladgate?

[uncle tom]

so it may just be that the Symingtons got more of the right grapes in at the right time than Taylor Fladgate

I'm sure that will be the Symington line - and it's not hard to imagine what the TFP would say in reply..

..methinks this is the start of a debate that will run for fifty years!

[RonnieRoots]

so it may just be that the Symingtons got more of the right grapes in at the right time than Taylor Fladgate

I'm sure that will be the Symington line - and it's not hard to imagine what the TFP would say in reply..

..methinks this is the start of a debate that will run for fifty years!

Given that they still don't agree on 91/92 I think you may well be right.

[Andy Velebil]

so it may just be that the Symingtons got more of the right grapes in at the right time than Taylor Fladgate

I'm sure that will be the Symington line - and it's not hard to imagine what the TFP would say in reply..

..methinks this is the start of a debate that will run for fifty years!

And we'll all have a blast debating it

[Andy Velebil]

Anyway, my impression of the harvest in 2010 was it was very variable and so it may just be that the Symingtons got more of the right grapes in at the right time than Taylor Fladgate?

Yes, very true. Also remember the Sym's own a huge amount of properties all over the Douro. So they do have the ability to pick and chose the best small lots from various areas/Quinta's to make a small amount of good quality Port.

Time will tell, and as mentioned, we'll have a fun time debating this over the coming years.

[JacobH]

Yes, very true. Also remember the Sym's own a huge amount of properties all over the Douro. So they do have the ability to pick and chose the best small lots from various areas/Quinta's to make a small amount of good quality Port.

That almost implies that SQVP isn’t from single quintas

[RAYC]

Yes, very true. Also remember the Sym's own a huge amount of properties all over the Douro. So they do have the ability to pick and chose the best small lots from various areas/Quinta's to make a small amount of good quality Port.

That almost implies that SQVP isn’t from single quintas

Are any of the Symington Quintas that did produce a 2010 VP (Vesuvio, Bomfim, Malvedos, Canais, Cavadinha etc.) close by to Vargellas/Terra Feita/Roeda/Panescal (such that you would expect viticultural conditions to be broadly the same across the properties)?

[JacobH]

I think the closest two are Roêda and Bomfim, though Cavadinha is close to Terra Feita and Canais to Vargellas (albeit on different sides of the river). However, with micro-climates in the Douro complicating everything, I don’t think you can draw too many comparisons between them.

PS. This seems like a legitimate reason to plug the map.

[uncle tom]

Physical proximity is going to be no more significant than aspect and elevation.

[RAYC]

Physical proximity is going to be no more significant than aspect and elevation.

I suppose i thought that two adjoining properties may have very similar aspects/elevations!

And harvest/picking-date decisions presumably also feature as a factor?

[uncle tom]

And harvest/picking-date decisions presumably also feature as a factor?

Massively so - brinkmanship can sometimes pay dividends, but also spell disaster, coupled to which is the need to keep the picking gangs working, and getting the grapes in before the weather breaks.

The producers like to portray the harvest as a perfectly oiled, calm and scientific exercise; but in practice it's day-by-day juggling act, that sometimes gets very stressful..

[DRT]

A very interesting debate, but somewhat missing the point.

The Fladgate Partnership declared a small quantity of excellent VP in the same year as they opened their flagship hotel.

The Symingtons release a full range of SQVP in a non-classic year.

Is there a flaw? No. Is there commercial logic? Yes.

This doesn't seem like a mysterious debate to me.

[Andy Velebil]

A very interesting debate, but somewhat missing the point.

The Fladgate Partnership declared a small quantity of excellent VP in the same year as they opened their flagship hotel.

The Symingtons release a full range of SQVP in a non-classic year.

Is there a flaw? No. Is there commercial logic? Yes.

This doesn't seem like a mysterious debate to me.

Boring

[Andy Velebil]

And harvest/picking-date decisions presumably also feature as a factor?

Massively so - brinkmanship can sometimes pay dividends, but also spell disaster, coupled to which is the need to keep the picking gangs working, and getting the grapes in before the weather breaks.

The producers like to portray the harvest as a perfectly oiled, calm and scientific exercise; but in practice it's day-by-day juggling act, that sometimes gets very stressful..

Tom is spot on. It's a massive juggling act each year to determine which blocks to pick and when. When to schedule the picking teams to arrive and what do you do with them if there is an extended pause in the picking due to weather or other issues. Where and which lots to ferment seperately or together. Where to ferment and store the young wines. Transporting grapes and finished wines to other places. And that is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to the incredibly complex logistics of running a harvest. God forbid if any of those things fail or stumble, having the potential to ruin an entire harvest.

[Andy Velebil]

I think the closest two are Roêda and Bomfim, though Cavadinha is close to Terra Feita and Canais to Vargellas (albeit on different sides of the river). However, with micro-climates in the Douro complicating everything, I don’t think you can draw too many comparisons between them.

PS. This seems like a legitimate reason to plug the map.

Precisely, the micro climates are very unique to each Quinta. So while there may be some similarities in small plots within nearby Quinta's the overall differences most likely overshadow it.

And size can also play a part. Example, if Quinta "A" is 500 hectares and next door is Quinta "B" which is only 200 hectares. Quinta "A" has far more grapes to chose from when it comes to making a top Port. Not only in terms of quality but quantity as well.

[RonnieRoots]

I would think that both the Symingtons and TFP have enough top class vineyards, knowledge, capacity etc. to produce vintage quality juice if the conditions are right. So Derek's argument makes more sense (and is actually not as boring as Andy suggests).

In the end it does come down to a question of economics. And there it is interesting to see the difference between TFP and Symington, because whereas the Symington hold back most of their stock for late release, the TFP SQVP's are released immediately after bottling. That means that the economic situation on the short term (be it the market situation or the cash flow needs of the company) can play a much bigger role in the TFP decision than it will in the case of the Symingtons.

Let's just suppose that TFP decides that the current market isn't ideal for SQVP sales (and perhaps they're still sitting on large stocks of '08), the company is limited as to how much it can produce in total (due to beneficio rules), and could do with some cash (maybe because they just built a new hotel)... I know what I would do: use the juice for my major moneymakers, in TFP's case: LBV and Bin 27.

[RAYC]

Ronnie - in the UK at least, the TFP SQVPs (and indeed Guimaraens, nominally the second division multi-vineyard blend) don't seem to be released immediately (TVVV being a notable exception). Currently on sale are the Roeda 97, Vargellas 01 and FG 96/98. Also note that Ribera (and Bomfim?) from the Symington stable does seem to have been released immediately in recent vintages (at least on a limited scale)

With your and Derek's theory, you seem to be suggesting that TFP are being actively misleading in the reasons given in their St. George's day announcements. I'm not sure I buy that, or that the commercial considerations you posit would prevent them doing a small bottling of one or other if they thought the quality was really there in their grapes for a VP.

[uncle tom]

The Fladgate Partnership declared a small quantity of excellent VP in the same year as they opened their flagship hotel.

I don't believe that had the slightest influence on the decision making. Having a fourth declaration in a decade was never the plan, but they had stunning wines to hand..

[JacobH]

With your and Derek's theory, you seem to be suggesting that TFP are being actively misleading in the reasons given in their St. George's day announcements. I'm not sure I buy that, or that the commercial considerations you posit would prevent them doing a small bottling of one or other if they thought the quality was really there in their grapes for a VP.

Your post implies that winemakers are never less than candid with their press-releases (especially when declaring ‟Vintage of Century” and the like ).

I’d be surprised, though, if the decision to declare 2009 was connected with the decision to open the Yeatman. I would have thought (and hoped) that the hotel was set up to be at arms-length Port company, so that if it all went wrong horribly it wouldn’t take the Port business down with it. But also I just can’t see them being that cynical about a decision to declare. There’s a big step from thinking about existing stock and next year’s vintage to thinking about cash flow in another part of the business.

[RAYC]

With your and Derek's theory, you seem to be suggesting that TFP are being actively misleading in the reasons given in their St. George's day announcements. I'm not sure I buy that, or that the commercial considerations you posit would prevent them doing a small bottling of one or other if they thought the quality was really there in their grapes for a VP.

Your post implies that winemakers are never less than candid with their press-releases (especially when declaring ‟Vintage of Century” and the like ).

I've no doubt that press-releases are often less than candid. But if that were the case in this instance, it seems odd that they have done so to play down the quality of their harvest (by essentially saying in their press releases that there was not the quality for VP there).

Surely a much stronger selling story would have been that the harvest had attractive qualities and that elegant, early maturing SQVP could have been produced, but that the decision was made - bearing in mind the strength of 09 and potential of 11 - to allocate these best grapes to strengthen the reserves set aside for ruby and LBV...

Having a fourth declaration in a decade was never the plan, but they had stunning wines to hand..

I can just picture Glenn shaking his head and tutting as he reads this!

[Glenn E.]

I can just picture Glenn shaking his head and tutting as he reads this!

It has certainly been an interesting read!