Birth year port

Anything to do with Port.
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RAYC
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Birth year port

Post by RAYC »

Have seen this a bit recently...the marketing of 30 yr tawny as a 1981 anniversary/birth year gift...

Two online examples: here and here

I'm not sure that either explicitly claim to be "vintage 1981", but both come close to implying it - the first link in particular.

I think there's a fair bit of "innocent mis-selling" in shops as well - a non-port drinking family friend was slightly disappointed to find out that there was not necessarily any link between a 30yr tawny and grapes harvested in 1981 after some sales patter convinced her it would be good for a 30th present (mine) for precisely that reason...

Still - i assured her it was a very good present for plenty of other reasons!
Rob C.
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benread
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Re: Birth year port

Post by benread »

We have a test that is used to regulate insurance advertising, courtesy of the (soon to be defunct) FSA. It requires all advertising to be 'clear. fair and not misleading'. If this were insurance, it would fail with flying colours! The use of the number '1981' in both cases misleads (in my view) people who have less knowledge to believe it is a wine with origins in the year stated. I have no idea what chance there is of this actually being the case, but suspect a very small percentage of the actual wine, if any, is actually from the year stated.

I have also noted this propensity elsewhere.
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Vintage 1970 and now proud owner of my first ever 'half-century'!
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DRT
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Re: Birth year port

Post by DRT »

This discussion could be widened further by considering how misleading the terms 10, 20, 30, and Over 40 Years are given that they bear absolutely no relationship to the actual age of the wine in the bottle :?

I can't think of any other product that would be allowed to use descriptions like these without there being production rules that ensure that what the label says would actually be true.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
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DRT
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Re: Birth year port

Post by DRT »

And, for the mathematicians amongst us, there is Taylor's A Century of Port :roll:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
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g-man
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Re: Birth year port

Post by g-man »

DRT wrote:This discussion could be widened further by considering how misleading the terms 10, 20, 30, and Over 40 Years are given that they bear absolutely no relationship to the actual age of the wine in the bottle :?

I can't think of any other product that would be allowed to use descriptions like these without there being production rules that ensure that what the label says would actually be true.
any madeira made in teh solera method.

1816 my butt!
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PhilW
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Re: Birth year port

Post by PhilW »

DRT wrote:This discussion could be widened further by considering how misleading the terms 10, 20, 30, and Over 40 Years are given that they bear absolutely no relationship to the actual age of the wine in the bottle :?
I thought I read somewhere that the indicated age must be less than the average age of the port used within - is that not correct?
(I realise that enforceability/verification is another issue, though presumably that could apply to VP as well, if someone felt inclined to fill a labelled bottle with different liquid)
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smisse
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Re: Birth year port

Post by smisse »

RAYC wrote:Have seen this a bit recently...the marketing of 30 yr tawny as a 1981 anniversary/birth year gift...

Two online examples: here and here

I'm not sure that either explicitly claim to be "vintage 1981", but both come close to implying it - the first link in particular.

I think there's a fair bit of "innocent mis-selling" in shops as well - a non-port drinking family friend was slightly disappointed to find out that there was not necessarily any link between a 30yr tawny and grapes harvested in 1981 after some sales patter convinced her it would be good for a 30th present (mine) for precisely that reason...

Still - i assured her it was a very good present for plenty of other reasons!
Congratulations with your birthday!
Good to hear that there is another portlover from 1981. I'll think of you when I open my 1981 vintage on my 50th birthday ;)

Ontopic - I agree with the fact dates are misleading. I also had occasions where a 1979 was offered as alternative to a 1981 because it was bottled in 1981 :roll:
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JacobH
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Re: Birth year port

Post by JacobH »

PhilW wrote:I thought I read somewhere that the indicated age must be less than the average age of the port used within - is that not correct?
No, there is no requirement as to the age of the Port in a tawny blend (unlike Scotch or Cognac), although most shippers will say the average age is much older than the age on the label. The regulation (IVDP Regulation n.º 36/2005 Art. 5(2)) only specifies:

‟A idade mencionada no rótulo exprime o carácter do vinho no que respeita às características organolépticas conferidas pelo envelhecimento em casco, correspondentes à idade indicada.”

which I think roughly means ‟the age on the label expresses the character of the wine, with regards to the organoleptic characteristics conferred by the ageing in barrels, corresponding to the indicated age”.

I think here the Port industry does benefit from its laxer requirements because most people expect them to be tougher and that the product is rarer and more exclusive than it is. For most other drinks sold with a indication of age, such as Scotch, the age on the bottle shows the age of the youngest component of the blend and not the average age. I would be very surprised if the average age of a sample of 10-year-old single malts was younger than the average age of a similar selection of 10-year-old tawny Ports, but most people would regard them as being similarly rare.
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uncle tom
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Re: Birth year port

Post by uncle tom »

Under the old UK Trade Descriptions Act, the 10/20/30/40yr tawnies, as labled and regulated by the IVDP, appear to be illegal.

However this old and easily understood bit of UK legislation seems to have been overrun by a bit euro-regulation that is very hard to interpret. From web searches, it is not even clear whether the UK Act has been repealed or not.

One way or the other, the notion of having wines that say they are a certain age, but only have to appear to be that age, does not rest well with me. It is inaccurate and too subjective.

Better IMO, that the IVDP strengthen the definition of these wines, to require that the minimum average age of the components must not be less than that stated on the label.

From conversations with the producers, this would appear to present no problem for the 10yrs, and only a minimal issue with the 20yrs. The market might find itself a little short of 30yr and 40yr bottlings for a few years however.

Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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RAYC
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Re: Birth year port

Post by RAYC »

JacobH wrote:which I think roughly means ‟the age on the label expresses the character of the wine, with regards to the organoleptic characteristics conferred by the ageing in barrels, corresponding to the indicated age”.
Yes - so as i understand it the IVDP apply an "objective" test when approving - i.e. does this sample have the characteristics of a 10yr/20yr tawny port?

So, if you had some fast maturing but good barrels, you might be able to blend a port with an average age of 15 years and get it approved as a 20yr. But in practice, I understood the reverse to be more common, and that the average age is often far older than that indicated (at least with the smaller producers and at the 10yr/20yr level).

Given that the 10yr/20yr etc. are bottled year on year by producers, how often are they submitted for re-approval?
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RAYC
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Re: Birth year port

Post by RAYC »

uncle tom wrote:However this old and easily understood bit of UK legislation seems to have been overrun by a bit euro-regulation that is very hard to interpret. From web searches, it is not even clear whether the UK Act has been repealed or not.
Not my area, but i think that when the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive was implemented in the UK, much of the old Trade Descriptions Act (and also Consumer Protection Act) was replaced by the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the remainder that was not repealed (what is left here) was "harmonised" to ensure consistency across Europe!

I don't know whether it is considered a success, i must admit.
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JacobH
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Re: Birth year port

Post by JacobH »

RAYC wrote:Yes - so as i understand it the IVDP apply an "objective" test when approving - i.e. does this sample have the characteristics of a 10yr/20yr tawny port?
I would probably classify that as a classic definition ‟subjective”; it’s based on what the taster at the IVDP thinks it looks and taste like, rather than any objectively establishable facts. Not that there’s anything wrong with that when assessing for quality but it seems the same as having the demarcated zone defined as being ‟the area in which wine which has the organoleptic characteristics of Port is produced”...
uncle tom wrote:Under the old UK Trade Descriptions Act, the 10/20/30/40yr tawnies, as labled and regulated by the IVDP, appear to be illegal.
I wonder if there are any public bodies which are tasked with investigating where there has been a systemic failure, such as here? Whilst we’re mounting our hobby-horses, I would be pleased if the Price Marking Order 2004 was properly enforced on wine-merchants who do not include VAT in their wine-lists.
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