The ageing of Uncle T’s cellar

[jdaw1]

Split from A northern port tasting by jdaw1.

According to my computer, opening the 1851 reduced the average age of the bottles in my cellar by all of 13 days..

If, before opening the 1851, the average age was 30 years, then Tom has about 3650 bottles. If 20 years, then 3930 bottles. If 40, 3370; and if 50, 3090.

[PhilW]

According to my computer, opening the 1851 reduced the average age of the bottles in my cellar by all of 13 days..

If, before opening the 1851, the average age was 30 years, then Tom has about 3650 bottles. If 20 years, then 3930 bottles. If 40, 3370; and if 50, 3090.

An interesting and suprisingly revealing statistic if you expand on the above since it places a hard upper limit, as well as a fairly small range. Of course what it mostly does is make most of us jealous (or maybe that's just me )

Sounds like an excellent selection of port drunk by all, will be interested to read the reviews

Phil.

[uncle tom]

It was actually thirteen days plus a number of hours, and the average age of my cellar is just under 29 years - Julian's maths looks about right..

Tom

[jdaw1]

Assuming exactly 29 years (before the ’51 was opened), and a change of ”“13¼ days, gives 3611 bottles.

[uncle tom]

The actual current numbers are:

Average age: 28 years, 10 months, 2 days, 15 hours and 23 minutes

Total number of bottles of VP: 3503

Tom

[PhilW]

The actual current numbers are:

Average age: 28 years, 10 months, 2 days, 15 hours and 23 minutes

Total number of bottles of VP: 3503

Tom

just.... wow....

I recently attended a wedding at one of the Cambridge colleges, and at the meal was considering asking them to see their cellar, just out of interest; little did I know there was a far, far more impressive one just down the road!

[uncle tom]

The actual content of the Cambridge college cellars is always a bit of a mystery, and the stuff of rumour..

..those under Trinity are said to be immense, but largely empty now. In the days when almost all port was UK bottled, Trinity bottled a ruby for everyday student consumption that was affectionately known as TCP (Trinity College Port)

JDAW might be able to expand on what actually lurks below those hallowed halls..!

Tom

[jdaw1]

3611 bottles.

Total number of bottles of VP: 3503

Given the imprecision of the clues, I don’t feel disgraced.

[jdaw1]

JDAW might be able to expand on what actually lurks below those hallowed halls..!

A lot less than was there. They have been selling, and not replenishing.

[RAYC]

The actual current numbers are:

Average age: 28 years, 10 months, 2 days, 15 hours and 23 minutes

Total number of bottles of VP: 3503

Tom

Do you give your half bottles, 75cl bottles and magnums equal weights when calculating average age? If so, do you have a separate "average age of VP in your cellar" statistic?

[uncle tom]

Do you give your half bottles, 75cl bottles and magnums equal weights when calculating average age? If so, do you have a separate "average age of VP in your cellar" statistic?

I have only two half bottles of VP in my cellar but do have a small number of magnums and two double magnums.

As well as an overall bottle count of 3503 I also have a 'VP as 75cL' count - which currently numbers 3514

Tom

[jdaw1]

I have only two half bottles of VP in my cellar but do have a small number of magnums and two double magnums.

As well as an overall bottle count of 3503 I also have a 'VP as 75cL' count - which currently numbers 3514

We need to gain 11 × 75cl. The two halves are ”“1 of these; the two double-magnums are +6. So we need 6 more: hence the ‟small number of magnums” is six.

[uncle tom]

We need to gain 11 × 75cl. The two halves are ”“1 of these; the two double-magnums are +6. So we need 6 more: hence the ‟small number of magnums” is six

Correct: - 4 x Morgan '66, 1 x Croft '66 & 1 Delaforce '70

Tom

[RAYC]

Which means, somewhat impressively, that each day that passes adds nearly 10 years of further bottle age to your VP collection in aggregate.

[uncle tom]

Indeed, and the aggregate total now exceeds 100,000 years..!

Tom

[jdaw1]

He means 100,000 bottle years, as previously discussed here and there and not needing re-discussion.

[g-man]

He means 100,000 bottle years, as previously discussed here and there and not needing re-discussion.

i thoguht the unit of measure was bridgeman? as discussed here

100,000 bridgemans

[RAYC]

This clearly does need re-discussion.

A Bridgeman, to my understanding (though KillerB may need to confirm), is simply standard measure of how much a cellar will age in one year based on a 75cl bottle of port. Therefore Tom's VP cellar of 3503 bottles will age by 3514 Bridgemans in this calendar year, implying a Turnbull Time of 2 hours, 29 minutes and 40 seconds. However, those rough and ready calculations overlook: a) old bottles of vintage port that were bottled in 70cl bottles (rather than now-standard 75cl); and b) aggregate ullage across the cellar - both of which should arguably be taken into account when calculating Bridgemans.

What i'm not so sure about is whether Bridgemans (or, for that matter, bottle years) can be used as a measure of aggregate cellar age (rather than change in cellar age over time), since the 2 - 3 years in cask at the outset does not seem to be easily accomodated by either concept.

In any event, the posts under Derek's TN links probably deserve a linked split so i can write my review.

[jdaw1]

In any event, the posts under Derek's TN links probably deserve a linked split so i can write my review.

Split from A northern port tasting by jdaw1.

[jdaw1]

How many bottles of VP are there, anywhere?

Rephrased in cosmological terms: what is the Turnbull Time of the Universe?

[uncle tom]

How many bottles of VP are there, anywhere?

- Insufficient!

Moving on..

..project Cellar #2 reaches a critical point tomorrow with the casting of the roof slab..

..nearly ten tons of readymix (grade C35) will be poured into shuttering that has cost about £700 to assemble, and is supported by nearly 30 Acrow props.

The roof slab will be 21cm thick complete with a layer of heavy reinforcing mesh. Hopefully this will be sufficient to bear a 3ft mantle of soil once the concrete has cured (the cross span is 2.05m)

The nightmare scenario of course would be the collapse of the shuttering as the concrete is poured..

..I rather hope it doesn't!

Tom

[jdaw1]

The nightmare scenario of course would be the collapse of the shuttering as the concrete is poured..

The nightmare scenario would be a collapse after being filled with fine vintage Port.

[uncle tom]

Now spattered with cement, I can confirm that the lid pour passed off without incident this morning!

The concrete will now be allowed to go off for an hour before being covered in polythene to stop it drying out too quickly.

The props will be left in situ for seven days, at which point the concrete will have gained 75% of its eventual structural strength.

After removing the shuttering, I will then ice the top with a liberal coating of hot tar, and paint the sides with a bitumen paint. Once that is done, the lid will be mounded over with soil and clay to give a minimum of 3ft cover (including the concrete)

Work left to do includes fitting the door, lighting and security systems; the internal screeding, tiling and staging, and the installation of four large wine racks. I will also install equipment to monitor the temperature and humidity - it will be interesting to see how much seasonal deviation I get from the year round average of 9.5C.

Hopefully I will be able to start installing bottles by the beginning of September - the cellar has the capacity to hold 5,000.

Tom

[g-man]

hey can you post a link to the wine racks you use?

i'm looking for inspiration

[uncle tom]

This is my supplier:

http://www.sorrells-wineracks.co.uk/win ... -racks.php

I like the traditional design, with double depth holes, as it is inexpensive and space efficient.

However I do make one small modification when I take delivery. The problem with this design is that the horizontal metal bar at the front has a bad habit of catching and tearing the back labels of bottles when they are removed. To prevent this I cut small pieces of 2" silver duct tape and neatly wrap them over each of the bars - if you do it carefully, you don't notice it's there. The glue on duct tape quickly fouls blades and scissors BTW - but a quick squirt of lighter fuel works wonders!

The other bits of advice I would give when installing this type of rack (if it's of any size) is to have a piece of wood and rubber mallet to hand as you install it, in order to straighten it up a little (they tend to twist a bit when transported) and also to place it on a piece of 1" plywood rather than directly on the floor, else you will tend to scrape your knuckles when placing or removing bottles from the bottom rung..

Tom