Port Glasses Test

Anything to do with Port.

Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby JacobH » 23:49 Wed 15 Jun 2011

DRT wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Surely Derek’s standard port glass is one of these.
Yes, just the right size, unless you are in need of a Magnum.
:shock: Do we blame the American ‟super-size” influence for turning the ancient and modest British tradition of a pint of Port into a yard?
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 00:16 Thu 16 Jun 2011

only if it comes with a colored little umbrella and a straw.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby Glenn E. » 05:57 Sat 18 Jun 2011

I read somewhere that the wine glass used on Cougar Town holds 44 oz. I don't know whether or not the picture I posted in the 44 oz glass, though.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 17:37 Sat 18 Jun 2011

Glenn E. wrote:I read somewhere that the wine glass used on Cougar Town holds 44 oz. I don't know whether or not the picture I posted in the 44 oz glass, though.


hahah just a little too small to fit a colt 45 =)
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby jdaw1 » 15:28 Sat 02 Jul 2011

Churchill’s Port, in a press release dated May 2011 and just received by email, wrote:A new wine glass ”“ unique in its elegance and lightness

The art of drinking Port Wine from a Churchill’s glass
With the true Port Wine connoisseur in mind, Churchill has introduced an exclusive new glass for tasting and enjoying Port Wine. This hand-made glass allows all the unique characteristics of a fine Port Wine to be appreciated to the full.

In continued pursuit of the philosophy of a high-quality Port Wine producer, Churchill’s has tried to bring to the table the same care which is demonstrated from the moment of conception of a Port Wine. In the words of Maria Emília Campos, Churchill’s marketing and sales director, ‟we firmly believe that the glass itself is of fundamental importance to the enjoyment of the very best that a wine can offer, from the actual tasting to the sensation of touch. Since there was nothing on the market which displayed the contours, elegance and lightness we were seeking, it was decided that we should create our own!

In an effort to ensure that drinking Port Wine becomes an ever-more pleasurable act of elegance, distinction and sophistication, Churchill’s has given birth to an exclusive glass for the delight of the true Port Wine connoisseur. With a tulip-shaped bowl and finest calibre glass, it has the slenderest of round stems, creating an immediate impression of lightness and elegance.

Churchill’s chose to reproduce the style of a precious old wine calice which had been discovered amongst family treasures and, in collaboration with Schott Zwiesel, created a glass of Tritan Crystal, completely free of both lead and barium, besides being 60% more resistant and long lasting than lead crystal.

‟We are conscious that the glass is a feature of supreme importance in the serving, drinking and appreciation of Port Wine”, added Maria Emília Campos. ‟The Churchill’s glass has been conceived with the true connoisseur and Port Wine lover in mind, acknowledging his pursuit of a life of quality and tempered pace. This was our challenge in the design of the glass, exclusivity not only in design and style but equally in the materials employed. This glass pays ‘homage’ to Port Wine, which we ardently believe should be appreciated with elegance and style.”

Available for purchase at €15,00 at Churchill’s Visit Centre, in Vila Nova Gaia, Rua da Fonte Nova, 5.
Alas churchills-port.com is down, so there isn’t a picture.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby DRT » 16:04 Sat 02 Jul 2011

jdaw1 wrote:Alas churchills-port.com is down, so there isn’t a picture.
The site is back up, but I can't find any mention of the glass.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby PhilW » 11:17 Tue 16 Aug 2011

I decided it was about time to join in with this experiment and post my notes, especially after my wife generously bought me a pair of Riedel port glasses for our anniversary :D

The Setup:
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One bottle of Dow 1991, decanted through medical gauze 24hrs ahead of the test (cork out in one piece). I'll have to look into how to create the tasting mats ;)

The Glasses:
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The glass lineup was as follows:

1. Riedel port glass
2. ISO tasting glass
3. Taylor Fladgate port glass
4. Schott port glass
5. Penderyn (whisky) glass

The Taylors glass was from a 'gift pack' (bottle of Taylors LBV plus the glass), while the Schott glass was my 'original' port glass from many years; The ISO and Riedel are recent additions which encouraged this test. The Penderyn was used as a wild-card entry with similar surface area for the measure and funneling top.

Using a separate glass marked with a 45ml line to measure, each glass was then filled with a 45ml measure; I picked this amount for initial tests based on 70cl bottle divided by 14 people for tasting; see later for increased portions. The filled glasses were thus ready for test:

Image

Test 1 - 45ml still
For the first test I left the glasses to stand for 3mins after pouring (having spaced them out) and then smelled without lifting the glass.
- Riedel: Full fresh blackcurrants, some vanilla
- ISO: Lighter small, some blackcurrants
- Taylors: As ISO
- Schott: Similar smell, but lighter still
- Penderyn: Almost no nose, slightly spirity

Test 2 - 45ml still repeat, reversed
To try and determine if order was an issue, the same test was repeated in reverse order, after a few deep breaths of air outside to clear any residual odour. As before the glasses remained stationary on the table.
- Penderyn: Slight blackcurrent and vanilla, quite spirity
- Schott: minimal smell
- Taylors: light smell, some hint of orange(?)
- ISO: light smell, seemed to be slightly less that in previous test
- Riedel: fuller and deeper than the ISO, but seemed lighter than previous test
Overall an interesting result which together with the previous one appeared to show that without sufficient pause between, the smell on subsequent glasses may be reduced slightly due to the smell from previous glass. From hereon I therefore gave more of a pause between glasses and smelled all glasses in forward/backward order to make an assessment.

Test 3 - 45ml lift and smell
Similar to at a tasting, this time I simply lifted the glass, held at an angle and smelled without swirling. Attempting to determine whether the angle, or the action of tilting to smell makes any difference.
- Penderyn: A small amount of flavour showing, still quite spirity (more spirit than flavour)
- Schott: Medium level smell definitely showing more fruit now, no spirit
- Taylors: Very slightly more spirit, slightly lighter smell
- ISO: As Taylor
- Riedel: As Taylor
The Schott was very noticeable in this test as having almost no spirit compared with the other glasses, while now showing the fruit; Nose noticeably closer to liquid surface than other glasses, and minimal funneling possible reason for lack of spirit?

Test 4 - 45ml lift, swirl and smell
Same as the previous test, but this time with a deliberate short swirl to see what difference this would cause:
- Penderyn: More flavour showing, but also more spirity
- Schott: Now a good smell showing clear fruit and vanilla, still minimal spirit
- Taylors: Improved level of flavour compared with non-swirl, some spirit
- ISO: Now more intense, improved level of flavour (slightly more than Taylor), some spirit
- Riedel: Also more flavour (more than ISO) also slightly more spirit than ISO
My overall impression was that the slight swirl did improve the ability to detect the fruit in all glasses.

Test 6 - 90ml higher fill level
An initial test to determine the difference a larger portion makes. Created by pouring one glass into the other, stand for 1min then lift, tilt (where possible) and smell
- Penderyn: (skipped)
- Schott: minimal smell, no spirit
- Riedel: Medium level of smell, some spirit
- ISO: medium level of smell, slightly more blackberries?
- Taylors: similar to ISO, though slightly lighter smell
The Reidel, Taylors and ISO all seemed to be able to cope with the 90ml measure similarly to previously, while the Schott glass (now almost full) showed minimal smell.

Test 7+
Subsequent tests abandoned due to the tester drinking the port!
- strawberry and vanilla tones, very slightly sour to start, quite spirited and had a long after-taste with a hint of cloves on the finish.

Conclusions
Some very preliminary conclusions given the limited testing:
(a) The Riedel, ISO and Taylor glass all allow for straightforward smelling, are not too sensitive to quantity in the 45-90ml range, and a slight swirl aids the nose.
(b) The Schott glass when filled to 45ml, provided excellent ability to smell the flavours without the spirit obscuring them compared with the others, but is more sensitive to quantity in the glass
(c) I must leave more time between each glass to gain a proper appreciation of each when moving from glass to glass
(d) I possess only a limited amount of will-power to prevent me from drinking the glasses

Very nice port, and still some left for tomorrow :)

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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby jdaw1 » 11:29 Tue 16 Aug 2011

PhilW wrote:I'll have to look into how to create the tasting mats
Either, 1, www.jdawiseman.com/placemat.html; or 2, ask me.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 14:20 Tue 16 Aug 2011

Philw, you need a control smell in between each sniff.

Btw which riedels are you using? Riedel makes well over 6? different kinds of port glasses now.

My glass was the Vinum.

The human nose olafactory senses will diminish if smelling the same aromatics, which is why some old ladies pour on the perfume.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby RAYC » 16:31 Tue 16 Aug 2011

PhilW wrote:Conclusions
Some very preliminary conclusions given the limited testing:
(a) The Riedel, ISO and Taylor glass all allow for straightforward smelling, are not too sensitive to quantity in the 45-90ml range, and a slight swirl aids the nose.
(b) The Schott glass when filled to 45ml, provided excellent ability to smell the flavours without the spirit obscuring them compared with the others, but is more sensitive to quantity in the glass
(c) I must leave more time between each glass to gain a proper appreciation of each when moving from glass to glass
(d) I possess only a limited amount of will-power to prevent me from drinking the glasses

Very nice port, and still some left for tomorrow :)

Phil.


Phil - a very interesting test. But which will be your "go-to" glass...?

I tried something similar (but less well-planned or documented!) with the Riedel Ouverture White, Riedel Vinum Port (which is i assume what you have), Riedel Vinum Chianti and a standard ISO. My conclusion was that i am fairly unfussy and that whilst there were subtle differences, it was hard to come to a firm "preference". However, the factor which distinguished them most for me was the rolled rim of the ISO vs (much better) cut rim of Riedels. Conversely, when down to the last 20ml, I found the smaller size of the ISO was advantageous.

I now drink at home from the Ouverture White or Vinum Port, but am thinking of seeing if i can track down a few cheap cut-rim ISOs for dinner-party/tasting use.
Last edited by RAYC on 17:12 Tue 16 Aug 2011, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby RAYC » 16:41 Tue 16 Aug 2011

g-man wrote: Riedel makes well over 6? different kinds of port glasses now.



6?! Is that counting lead/non-lead variants of the same shape? I was only aware of the Sommelier (out of my price range!) and Vinum port glasses.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 17:13 Tue 16 Aug 2011

they have many different lines

reidel recommends port with the following lines

vinum - port/sherry glass
vinum xl - icewine glass
o - spirit glass
ouverture - sherry glass


and i'm not including the 5 other wine lines they have that look to be suitable usage as it's the same bowl shape

http://glassware.riedel.com/index.php/riedel.html
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby PhilW » 22:03 Tue 16 Aug 2011

g-man wrote:Philw, you need a control smell in between each sniff.

I did think about that, but could not think of a suitable olfactory cleanser as opposed to something which simply overrides, and would therefore likely be no more valid than a suitable pause.

g-man wrote:Btw which riedels are you using? Riedel makes well over 6? different kinds of port glasses now.

Riedel Vinum Port

RAYC wrote:Phil - a very interesting test. But which will be your "go-to" glass...?

Honestly I think I'll probably use the Riedel - the Riedel and ISO were very similar but the Riedel seemed to have the slight edge on immediate pour+smell, and with the slightly wider shape is probably more forgiving on portion size. That said, the Schott might be better on the first night if the bottle were only decanted for short time, as it seemed to help bypass the spirit and give more access to the full flavours on the nose (but only if I pour very small portions) and then use the Riedel on the following night to finish the bottle. I'd be happy drinking from any of them (except the Penderyn).

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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby DRT » 23:31 Tue 16 Aug 2011

RAYC wrote:
g-man wrote: Riedel makes well over 6? different kinds of port glasses now.


6?! Is that counting lead/non-lead variants of the same shape? I was only aware of the Sommelier (out of my price range!) and Vinum port glasses.

g-man wrote:they have many different lines

reidel recommends port with the following lines

vinum - port/sherry glass
vinum xl - icewine glass
o - spirit glass
ouverture - sherry glass


and i'm not including the 5 other wine lines they have that look to be suitable usage as it's the same bowl shape

http://glassware.riedel.com/index.php/riedel.html

Doesn't all that say that they have one Port glass which comes in two qualities (Vinum and Sommelier) and lots of other glasses that it is possible to drink Port from?
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 03:15 Wed 17 Aug 2011

DRT wrote:
RAYC wrote:
g-man wrote: Riedel makes well over 6? different kinds of port glasses now.


6?! Is that counting lead/non-lead variants of the same shape? I was only aware of the Sommelier (out of my price range!) and Vinum port glasses.

g-man wrote:they have many different lines

reidel recommends port with the following lines

vinum - port/sherry glass
vinum xl - icewine glass
o - spirit glass
ouverture - sherry glass


and i'm not including the 5 other wine lines they have that look to be suitable usage as it's the same bowl shape

http://glassware.riedel.com/index.php/riedel.html

Doesn't all that say that they have one Port glass which comes in two qualities (Vinum and Sommelier) and lots of other glasses that it is possible to drink Port from?


yes, but notice the bowl shapes for the 4 i stated are different ;-)
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 03:16 Wed 17 Aug 2011

PhilW wrote:
g-man wrote:Philw, you need a control smell in between each sniff.

I did think about that, but could not think of a suitable olfactory cleanser as opposed to something which simply overrides, and would therefore likely be no more valid than a suitable pause.

Phil.



Tap water.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby PhilW » 08:34 Wed 17 Aug 2011

g-man wrote:
PhilW wrote:
g-man wrote:Philw, you need a control smell in between each sniff.

I did think about that, but could not think of a suitable olfactory cleanser as opposed to something which simply overrides, and would therefore likely be no more valid than a suitable pause.

Tap water.

I'm assuming you're suggesting smelling it, as opposed to drinking or snorting it? :shock:

I expect that filling your nasal cavity with water (by whatever means) would be pretty guaranteed to clear any residual odour from the nasal cavity and cleanse the sensors to the olfactory bulb, but I can't say I fancy it much. If we're considering smelling the water, is that likely to be any more effective at removal residual odor and/or restoring the olfactory sensors than sniffing an empty glass, or taking several large breaths in through the nose and expelling via the mouth? (I don't know)
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 19:59 Wed 17 Aug 2011

PhilW wrote:
g-man wrote:
PhilW wrote:
g-man wrote:Philw, you need a control smell in between each sniff.

I did think about that, but could not think of a suitable olfactory cleanser as opposed to something which simply overrides, and would therefore likely be no more valid than a suitable pause.

Tap water.

I'm assuming you're suggesting smelling it, as opposed to drinking or snorting it? :shock:


sounds like something else i should try this weekend ;-)

I believe i read in some journal that the olfactory senses gets revived by sniffing something that's completely different. but then again a few snozzles of fresh airs would probably do the trick.

i'll have to dig through the net to find it again.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby Glenn E. » 03:41 Sat 27 Aug 2011

DRT wrote:Doesn't all that say that they have one Port glass which comes in two qualities (Vinum and Sommelier) and lots of other glasses that it is possible to drink Port from?

No. The Vinum is a "generic" Port glass. The Sommelier glasses come in Tawny and Vintage varieties, neither of which is exactly the same as the Vinum Port glass. So they have at least 3 different Port glasses as well as several other glasses that might be appropriate (or not) for Port. They also have a Riedel Bar series Port glass, but it looks to me like it's the same as the Vinum Port glass.

The Vinum Port glass is my preferred glass. I like the weight and feel better than the IVdP (Schott Zwiesel) and ISO glasses. I do like my two Sommelier glasses, but they just feel too fragile. I'm afraid to use them for fear of breaking them, and that's no way to drink Port.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby RAYC » 08:33 Sun 28 Aug 2011

Glenn E. wrote:The Vinum is a "generic" Port glass. The Sommelier glasses come in Tawny and Vintage varieties, neither of which is exactly the same as the Vinum Port glass.


The Mqlvedos blog suggests that the Sommelier Vintqge Port also comes in two varieties - hand blown lead crystal and machine blown non-lead. Presumably, if/when the latter is available commerciqlly, it will be signifiantly cheaper.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby Glenn E. » 00:57 Mon 29 Aug 2011

RAYC wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:The Vinum is a "generic" Port glass. The Sommelier glasses come in Tawny and Vintage varieties, neither of which is exactly the same as the Vinum Port glass.


The Mqlvedos blog suggests that the Sommelier Vintqge Port also comes in two varieties - mouth blown lead crystal and machine blown non-lead. Presumably, if/when the latter is available commerciqlly, it will be signifiantly cheaper.

That doesn't sound right to me. I believe that the distinguising characteristic of the Sommelier series is that they are all mouth-blown lead crystal. Anything machine made would by definition be a different series. As near as I can tell from the Malvedos blog, the machine-blown glass in question is the Restaurant Series Port glass, which is alleged to be identical to the Sommelier Vintage Port glass.

Why alleged? It's not really possible for these machine-blown glasses to be identical to mouth-blown glasses. The mouth-blown glasses have pulled stems while the machine-blown glasses have attached stems and that difference affects the shape of the bottom of the bowl. I'm sure it's a very minor difference, but then again the difference in shape between a Sommelier Vintage Port glass and a Vinum Port Glass is pretty minor also. (The Sommelier Tawny Port glass is significantly different.)

I wonder if the Restaurant Port glass that the Malvedos blog mentions and the Bar Port glass that can be found in g-man's link are the same? At the time of the Malvedos blog post, the restaurant glass had only first been made 10 days before so that might not have ended up being the name of the series.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby DRT » 17:31 Fri 09 Sep 2011

From 1934 to the mid 1970s there was a quarterly magazine titled "Wine and Food", published by the Wine and Food Society.

Later editions included a regular feature named "We disapprove of:" which typically listed a few grumbles about what was wrong with restaurants, cook books, wine lists, etc. A form of constructive criticism for the food and wine trade.

I found this today, which is relevant to this thread!
Wine and Food, No. 141, Winter 1968, page 80 wrote:We disapprove of: ! The way so many fine British wine glasses are made of crystal thick enough to support heavy decorative cutting on the bowls Why not restrict this to the stems and feet? Trying to drink a fine wine from a thick glass is like trying to make love to a woman who is wearing long woolly underwear.

Now then, chaps, who's going to step up to the challenge and report back with a test of this one? {no photographs please}
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby Andy Velebil » 20:59 Fri 09 Sep 2011

i can attest that a small plastic cup does not make a good Port drinking apparatus, but works in a pinch.
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby g-man » 16:11 Fri 11 Nov 2011

Perhaps we should point members of the TFP clan to this particular thread

http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2011/11/08/s ... t-glasses/
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Re: Port Glasses Test

Postby PhilW » 17:03 Fri 11 Nov 2011

Alternatively you could use the box at the bottom of their blog page to add a comment to say "we agree" and point them at our thread for more information, detailed tests, discussion of how fill level affects tastings, and offer our services if The Vintage Port Academy would like any further testing performed ;)
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